I used to love pvp. i would que battlegrounds all day just for fun, and i was looking forward to doing the same in classic.
sadly it feels like pvp in classic is just no fun for me. Some games are, those rare close pug vs pug games. Sadly in retail/vanilla that was often a large proportion of your games. In classic premade vs premade, or pug vs premade are the 2 dominant kinds of matches. Neither of which i enjoy as much to be honest. premade vs premade can be okay, but personally i find enjoyyment in the more chaotic nature of pug vs pug battlegrounds, where you can make pretty awesome plays that win you the game, in ways thatâs just not possible in premade vs premade.
Ultimately, this issue relies in the queue system not working properly. This has been an issue on retail for ages, and is an issue on Classic, as it used modern servers: the queue System doesnt take premades or pugs into consideration when creating a match.
I completely get where you come from, I do enjoy the chaos of full pug as well, but also the more calculated nature of premades, or trying to coordinate a pug against a premade. Fight hard, and never give up.
The problem is if a premade is half decent itâs impossible to beat. Sure if its just 10-15 random guys who joined together on trade chat you can beat them. If you go into a wsg where they have someone calling targets to dive on, and cc etc you will never win. Youâre at such a massive disadvantage, you canât just have 7 dps all dive on 1 player and hopelessly murder them, Or co-ordinate long cc chains well etc.
playing against a good premade is honestly pretty hopeless.
They wont understand you mate no matter what you say.People with writing poems posts will come soon.I was playing in internet cafe filled with 60 computers back at the day in vanilla the 40 of them were wow users.We never had huge problem with premades in queues but here we are soon to see poem posts form people who dont want that you say to pass is so simple
I wouldnât mind a change that made it so that premade groups can only play against other premade groups. I canât imagine camping around the pug groupâs graveyard all day, every day is much fun, so why not make it so that thereâs a proper challenge; and thus, a proper game where risks are risks.
Because that isnât the point of the ranking system. Ranking is farming, for there to be âriskâ and fun from a âproper challengeâ, the entire system would need re-working.
A complete overhaul of the ranking system isnât what people asked for when they asked for Vanilla. The ranking system, no matter how bad it actually is, was a core part of Vanilla.
And what do you even want pug vs pug for anyway? Are you sure youâd like to risk the entire honor grinding meta being changed and screwed over just so you can fight AFKers and noobs instead of premades?
Not all premades are the top 10% of rankers. Most are just random world-chat players.
Yeah, I get you. I just donât think itâs fun. I did it back in Vanilla, because I could afford it (basement-dwelling teenager with no job). It was fun for maybe a game or two, then it was mind-numbingly boring roflstomping everything. And itâs not fun being on the receiving end either.
Oh, and not all pugs are AFKing f*cktards. Just a tiny bit of communication is enough to beat crappy Premades. However, when youâve faced Rank 10+ teams about 5 times in a row, the fun factor kinda goes out the window.
The problem is that thatâs basically the system. Thatâs what people asked for, and thatâs what we got.
Blizzard learned that it was a bad system YEARS ago, which is why it was discontinued with the very first expansion.
If you change the system now, you change the players. Theyâll find a new efficient honor grind which you, and other puggers-only will also find unfair and a hinderance to you. There is simply no way that you win.
The best course of action is to do nothing. Wait a year or so, when everybody is in AQ and Naxx gear. At that point, nobody will care about rank grinding because the gear will be obsolete. People arenât going to tryhard premade for obsolete gear.
As of right now though? The weapons are better than BWL loot.
Well, Iâm not a pugger-only. I do premades every now and then, completely wreck the opponents; which is fun for one game or two, but then gets tedious. Just like getting rekt gets tedious after the same amount of games.
I donât know, man. I just miss being able to spontaneously queue to a BG and have a nice, fun game; even if we lost.
But youâre also right. Itâs just a matter of time until the no-lives move on to their next job. I might join them, who knows!
Everything is currently a race, once the race is over: nobody cares. And when nobody actually cares about the outcome, games are played for fun; to pass the time.
In the meantime though, Iâd recommend finding yourself some world PVP. Gank a leveller, wait for them to grab their main or friend, then gank those too. Group with friends or guildies and lock down mid-low level zones and force the other faction to respond to you: Make your own battlegrounds where premaders canât get due to fear of missing their queue pop.
Vanilla was always about making the most out of what little you have.
you put 15 grand marshalls in a pug together with no communication, they will beat some trash horde premade
the problem with pugs, me pugging the overwhelming majority of games, is that pugs are bad and have bad gear and little game sense as an average.
you can watch this in av, 60iq just a disaster
just play wsg and ab, there are A LOT of pugs, just accept that if its a decent premade u insta lose, take pleasure is ruining their honor per hour by keeping 1 or 2 bases and losing 10+ mins KNOWING you donât win.
Premades want best honor per hour and that means FAST consecutive wins.
When you keep even 1 base forever, you make their hph so much worse which is bad for them and they HATE IT.
Since youâre basically asking for âfair matchupsâ, that canât ever be achieved reliably as things are now. Because many people play WoW better as a whole now than they did back then. A big part of that is due to pserver-players explaining what to do and shaping the meta based on what they say, before Classic was even launched.
The other point of random matchmaking is that it canât take into account skill. To begin with, for a matchmaking to take into account the skill of both sides, there needs to be a way to quantify it.
Inb4 you might say âjust base the matchmaking on ilvlâ, is that it would severely affect queue times and have a negative impact on everyone.
This is what a rating system is for. Rating systems, and why they started using it in Chess which is what all games today base their rating systems on, is that itâs a mathematical way to quantify âskillâ.
Glicko RD is an example of a rating system with a rating deviation (just like the MMR being different from the CR in retail), while the Elo system is rather rudimentary in comparison.
This is why after Vanilla, they redesigned the entire reward scheme to separate the ones âseeking a challengeâ to prefer the rating systems of arenas, and later RBGs, from the ones seeking that âcasual, laidback experienceâ which many people queue random battlegrounds for in retail.
But you canât just arbitrarily put in a rating system without changing the entire reward scheme to fit into it.
This is why, no matter if itâs premades vs. premades, premades vs. pugs, or pugs vs. pugs, itâs entirely random how well that goes.
They even changed the class designs to make players feel more empowered (and subsequently not die as fast) to make all these randomly matchmade encounters âfeel more evenâ after a while.
Oh right, almost forgot:
Itâs not so bad now, but the impact the gear is going to make in BGs is only going to get increasingly worse from now on. The difference between pre-raid and t1 isnât so big, while the difference between pre-raid and t2 is slightly larger, while the difference between pre-raid and t3 is HUGE.
Eventually, this is going to make these randomly matchmade encounters in BGs be HEAVILY influenced by the amount of people with the highest tier of gear on each side. Regardless if this would be premade vs. premade or pug vs. pug, gear is going to make it go EVEN FASTER than it does now, and make you feel even more stomped than you do now if your gear isnât âup to parâ.
Truth is that a vocal minority seems to be the ââhardcoreââ we want to be social 100% of the time chilling in discord types . The general gamer has a social life outside of gaming and wants to relax when playing games for a few hours(and WoW has a relaxing atmosphere in-game). Our need to socialize inside a game is not like the nerdy person sitting infron of a computer screen alone 24/7, we interact with friends, family and people in real life.
Some interaction is not an issue and can even be enjoyable(itâs an mmorg after all) but it being almost a requirement like currently premade bgs is just going to annihilate the larger population. I played back in Vanilla and it was never this bad, Blizzard should definitely limit the join bg queue to a small group in all BGs.
Iâm aware of that, but ultimately that isnât really good design. I can understand if itâs a thing on retail, as random BGs are inconsequential (unless you want 30k honor for your rank3 essences, which is really easily done), but on Classic, where honor is important, and the core of PvP power progression, itâs significantly more important for a queue system to consider pugs vs. premades.
I know that itâs working as intented, but the design choice is ultimately bad for Classic / will be bad again for Retail whenever honor becomes a core important part of progression again.
Itâs almost like we can discuss stuff like this on the forums, and get into why we do and donât like it (even if itâs irrelevant to you)
Iâm with you OP. People will just quit after some time unless this gets a fix, meeting a premade once in a while is fine but all the time(whatâs with all the russian field marshal premades, they donât have job/lifes outside of gaming?) is going to end bad for classic WoW population.
I guess these marshal/field marshals premades will just be fighting other general/warlord premades in a few months time, because people will quit for sure when it isnât fun playing. Classic WoW PvE was already getting tiresome, now PvP is in danger as well, will Blizzard act?
