Those seem to be the generally agreed upon stats as there are no official ones. If you say it’s different the burden of proof is on you. But feel free to ignore me as you said, you are unlikely to say anything meaningful anyway.
Oh, you mean 50% including pugs? Yeah, that makes more sense because at the time alliance pugs were winning like 5% while premades were winning 95%. I was ranking to rank 10 at the time, doing a lot of AV, so most of this is just from my experience.
Do you know where all of the alliance players are ranking now when they can’t premade in AV? Not in AV pugs, that’s for sure…
EDIT: I even remember the premaders writing on the forums that if Blizzard stops them from premading they will stop going AV and the horde will have to “enjoy 1h+ queues”. Yeah, I realize now that they kept their word…
Uhm no, that’s not how burden of proof works. You’re the one claiming it, so you’re the one who must prove it. But try not to go overboard with burden of proof nonsense and use your common sense instead, burden of proof is more for courtrooms.
Do you seriously claim that what you heard about on social media is true, just because “a lot of people agree on it”? Are you even aware of what social media does to your brain, and how impressionable you can truly be? Use your damn head, please.
If you want scary examples of what “I read about it on the internet” can do to people, then check out some horror stories from for example India. People have literally been killed because of false allegations on social media there. But you know, it was “generally agreed upon”. Kek
Btw since it seems you’re completely ignorant of how such an idea came to be seen as “true”, then let’s go back in time a little bit:
- During the first waves of rankers, concurrent AV instances could number between 50-100+ depending on the time of day/night. (Peak hours numbering way over 100 concurrent AV instances back then.)
- The way people have reached such a conclusion about win rates, is because of a few people (yes, just a few when compared to the extreme amount of AVs having been played and 40+ Alliance players per AV) having talked on forums and such, mentioning their few dozens of games they kept track of and how many they had won out of them.
- During this time, you had the “hardcore premades”, requiring epic mount, raid gear and all that. Eventually they also started requiring gear from ranking.
Then you had the “pug premades” and “casual premades”, where there weren’t such strict requirements and the general “skill level” was more… let’s say mediocre.
And then you had the solo queuers. The solo queuers who got left with less than full teams at the start of AVs, because of premades not getting enough of their premade into the same AV.
So on and so forth.
So out of all of those AV instances played per day, you only had a few people being vocal about it online when compared to the masses who never bothers taking it to the forums and such.
Funny enough, the ones most obsessed about win rates was the mediocre premades.
This is the “generally agreed upon stats” which have echoed ever since, which you’ve now echoed yet again @Ringil . Congratulations.
Look I am not denying that lots of alliance players are terrible at pvp and that for months now AV has been filled with losers idiots and all that.
Likewise, it should not be hard to agree that the combined effect of better choke location and vastly superior reinforcements lines almost always decide the course of the battle. Read my earlier posts in the thread where I gave examples:
If you want I am happy to discuss more of them
All these topics.
Alliance gained a defeatist attitude due to honor per hour was faster by losing faster rather than “turtling” as people always call it… to win.
Hence why the alliance has been losing loads.
Even if you SWAPPED the map… you’ll find the EXACT same situation… especially with alliance having SHORT queues and horde having LONG queues.
It’s why myself as an alliance main on classic… don’t touch AV… too much defeatist attitude…
“Don’t defend, just let them win” and you see 10-15 alliance players just afking at the GY.
It’s not a straw man because it’s my own argument. You can only straw man someone else argument. Also it’s not even an arguemtn, it’s my personal observation and experience from playing the game on both factions. In fact you made a Straw Man out of my argument because I never said half the alliance are afk by default.
I just played an AV last night where more than half of the Russian team LITERALLY went afk after 30min. And I see it all the time. Alliance players standing afk while it’s very rare on horde. I have seen whole alliance teams stand afk at the hill of shame as we call it. I also know this from playing alliance with the “let them win” mentality when it’s not worth it to fight, it’s not worth it not to be afk. They CAN win but it’s not worth it. You see them push for 15min and then stop, because it’s not worth it. Meanwhile I have seen horde defend HARD for over an hour against premades, knowing we would lose, but we rather lose slow than fast. Because of the queue and general mentality. Horde GENERALLY play pvp for the pvp and less for the min maxing reaward grind (personal opinion).
I am 100% for switching the sides. That would mean that we would never lose again, even against russian premades because it’s super easy to defend from the alliance side, especially now when the backdoor is closed, so all the faction with long queue have to do to win against the faction with short queue is to not lose fast.
If you have insta queue and have any interested at all in rep or rank, you never want long AV games, and the whole map is designed for long games.
What a load of nonsense mate, not that is important but i disagree entirely lol
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I was in an AV last night against a Russian preamde. We defended SF Graveyard, we did not cap SH GY. So both teams was fighting in middle had about the same run back after death. We was defending SF for 30min. After that, the alliance team went afk and let us win. The whole horde team did this, no one was afk, no one was complaning, 40 horde defended SF and IB GY for 30min. We could not cap SH GY and they could not cap IB GY and no one could hold SF GY (they tagged SF first). And after a while, they literally let us win.
This is a fact that I observed. And I see the similar thing in every AV.
Don’t you think that in general, more allaince players choose to go afk while less horde players in general choose not to go afk. Don’t you think that the faction with insta queue prefer short games, win or lose, in general, and the faction with 2h queue, prefer a longer game, in general?
So, again. This is why I am FOR switching sides in AV between Horde and Alliance. It’s easier to defend so fighting from alliance side would benefit the horde the most. We could win faster against the weak pugs (it’s easier to invade the horde base) and easier win against the strong premades (easier to defend the allaince base).
No it happened at SF graveyard. We could not cap SH and they could not cap IB and we was tagging SF back and forth.
Would love the map swap tbh this is what would happen
Allience would win in 30 mins 95% of the time. If horde try to defend the bridge, you know the defence that the horde seem to tell us that it gives us a huge advantage they will get broken easy when we summon our boss breaking their turtle giving us a 45 min win which they can do nothing to prevent.
The horde will say that they can’t win and won’t be able to take back shgy then they will cry on forums saying its not the same as vanilla was or some other excuse to why the swap should be reverted.
The Allience queue will increase as horde come to terms that the map is broken.
The Allience rankers will join AV since honor will be great making the queue for even allience longer which will make the turtle even easier to solidify the wins we don’t actually need them anyway because we got the respawn advantage now.
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Lol dude, not even horde win like that most of the time. The vast majority of all games last 45min or more with only a handful of alliance defending. So you think Alliance would now suddenly win FASTER against a whole Horde that waited 1h-2h? Keep on dreaming. Unless you can get the alliance rankers to join AV and sacrifice rank progression to fight AV against Horde at the bridge forever.
It will take 20 mins to get enough to summon the boss we wouldn’t need 1-2 hours then good luck defending. I mean you guys say Paladins give us an advantage so why wouldn’t we beat your time.
Are you not worried the slightest that your biggest opponent on this issue is agreeing with you and want exactly what you want? I would…
I agree with you. Let’s switch sides. It would be freaking awesome to play from Alliance side with 40 motivated Horde after 1h-2h queue.
I mean, I know for a fact what I am talking about because I have done this on private servers when alliance had long queue. On the last major private server alliance was the dominant pvp faction with long queues. Guess what happened in AV.
MY POINT IS, let’s fix AV, but do it by addressing the real issue, and the real issue is NOT the map. It’s the queue and reward system. And those things are realistic to tweak, the map is not.
I think it would be awesome as well the horde queue will certainly come down as it’s worth it for the rankers hph more Allience will queue. You will have faster games maybe not as fast as Allience have now as the population difference but under 10 minutes at least.
Have you ever played Vanilla AV other than Classic or retail? Did you even play AV in Classic the first 2 weeks? I am asking because I mean you comments, they are cute in a way, but ooooh so ignorant.
No they wouldn’t though lol.
Alliance gives up due to the “turtling” for maximum honor per hour.
90% of AV is down to defeatist mentality xD.
100% the mentally thing your saying is an excuse a fantasy to hide the real problem. its not the same players everygame that excuse only holds up so long.yes I played AV in vanilla and first two weeks of classic I’ve tried premades I’ve tried solo in that time as well I know premades are an unfair advantage I also know the first two weeks both sides rushed and the horde didn’t use their tactical advantage until later and it wasn’t until premades stopped the Allience win rate plummet even when rankers where still playing.
I was in an AV last night fighting a russian premade. After 30min when no side could cap any tower or graveyard over half the alliance team went afk and let us win.
Why do you think they did that?
Because they can’t win and they know it even if they managed to capture ibgy it’s a losing battle because u can push them from the cave if you capture shgy once they lose so makes sense for the hph heros to quit once they have killed some lts
If they had a fighting chance and not have to overcome the map they wouldn’t have gave up
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Do you HONESTLY believe that a Russian premade CAN’T beat a horde pug?
What map advantage do Horde have for Snowfall GY when alliance was holding SH GY and they tagged SF first?
Exactly.
This is what I am saying over and over, This right here is the reason. The queue and reward system. The map is by design a slow map where games are designed to last for hours. This doesn’t work for the faction with insta queue. It has nothing to do with “balance”.
They do have a chance. It was a freaking preamde vs a pug. They can win just as much as Horde but if one faction defends hard the game will last for a long time. So they rather quit than to try and win, because if they win slow, they lose rank and rep.
Why is this so hard for you to see? You even say it yourself that the hph alliance leave and stuff. That’s not about balance, thats about design, the map is to slow for them. Horde can’t win fast and alliance can’t win fast if the other side defends. But with the current queue and reward system, that SYSTEM, not map, favors horde, that have the long queue. It was similar when Alliance had a long queue on a different server.
Blizzard tried to balance that map in Classic once. They closed the backdoors to the bases. It made no difference, or, it hurt allaince the most, now games takes a little longer to lose for the allaince…