This my entire point It’s nothing to do with Efficiency it’s completely to do with map balance. The fact is that it’s almost impossible to take back shgy when you spawn so far away 58 seconds on a mount to reach it with such a tight choke horde can defend it rolling there face along a keyboard .we just cannot get it back so the only two options is afk or defend the bridge until horde summons Lok which then we lose anyway.
It’s very easy to say you defend hard when you spawn 28 seconds away 20 a time when you don’t even have to push through a choke point or high ground.
Swap the maps like the post says and you will eat your words garunteed. You can be the best players on the server you ain’t getting past shgy choke
Except the best players on servers during premades did manage just fine. The difference is that your individual impact on the outcome in a large scale BG like AV is much smaller than it is in a BG size of 10-15 man.
Simply put, it’s not enough for just YOU or a few of your buddies making the “right” choices and playing “perfectly”. You need more of your team to make those same good plays for it to affect the outcome.
So because you lack that widespread winner mentality, you’ve always had a much higher average of naysayers and basically scrub PvEers backpedaling and keyboard turning without a mouse. The WPvP phase sure as hell made that very clear.
So as soon as your “winners”, i.e. the top premaders left once they mitigated the premade exploits, you’ve kept getting a much worse average of players.
In every PvP game, there’s a “top” and a “bottom”. The core gamers vs. the casual gamers. These are already well-defined in the video game industry.
You’ve just got much less of your “top” queuing for it, and always had much fewer of them, ever since their premades got shut down.
And then the problematic mindset issues spread like wildfire because of anonymous social media causing hypersensitive reactions.
Or as American politicians would call it, a “good campaign move”.
Ok, you are wrong. I know this based on 5 years of playing Both alliance and Horde in Classic and various private servers in various different versions.
Also, even if you were correct, it would not make any difference as Classic is a recreation of the game, how it was. The AV map is an authentic recreation of the 1.12.1 version.
But this is not a bad thing, this is a good thing. Because even though the map can’t be change (it literally can’t be changed and the sides can’t be switched) the reward and queue system can be tweaked because it already have been.
If you are right, this issue can’t be fixed. The map can’t be fixed becasue the map is a recreation of a map.
If I am right, it can be fixed by tweaking the queue and reward system in AV because the queue system is not a recreation.
I am making reasonable claims based on years of personal experience that can be fixed. You are making unreasonable claims that can’t be fixed. This whole thread is unreasonable and can only be seen as a fun thought experiment at best.
For example. Why haven’t anyone suggested to increase the rewards in AV for the winning faction to the point where it’s rewarding enough for alliance to win a slow game. That would be pretty easy to implement and easy to argue for.
I am right and your right saying the issue cannot be fixed well in classics lifespan they can swap map over every few games etc to make it more likely Allience will queue if they had a chance to win.
My claims are perfectly reasonable.beware uses chess as an example I will use the same example if the chess pieces are the same but the horde side takes two turns instead of one who is more likely to win because in essence that is what is happening Allience have double the distance to run to reinforce this is nothing to do with mindset issues when the rules are not the same.
to the premade comment ofcourse they did fine horde realised it was unfair to them and gave up to what I read on horde comments anyway as they cannot overcome the odds of facing a premade on 100% mounts while most pugged teams at that point where stuck on 60% mounts.
Even then there are plenty posts saying that they could beat some premades when they started to turtle and if your basing map being balanced because some premades used to win is such a bad argument in first place as even in symmetrical maps with zero advantages most often premades stomp pugs.
NO I AM SAYING THE OPPOSITE. God damn Straw Mans. Why are you people always so god damn dishonest? I made a long post explaining in details and you just flip it 180 like that.
Call it whatever you want call me whatever you want but it doesn’t change the fact that horde have advantages on the map due to the cave and distance to objectives blame mindset all you want but it’s not a balanced map at all
At least have some decency and admit it. There are plenty videos on YouTube of players running from horde pov and Allience pov and you know what horde is always the first to reach it.
Oh my gosh, YouTube shows it?!?! It MUST be true!! Oh wait, the distance difference has been covered 100 million times already. How about you try to come up with an original thought instead?
Maybe because it’s relevent!! It is the root cause of everything it Gets completely ignored by horde that are too ignorant to see it and have the audacity to blame the players and on mindset issues give me a break.
it is true try it for yourself get a group of your buddy’s use the macro to create an empty AV and race eachother from the points go wild you will just see how exactly the Allience have it and why they lose almost all the games its completely down to the map and not because horde plays better or Allience have a defeatest mentality what a joke.
If you’re gonna regress and echo the same nonsense over and over again, which has already been covered in almost every AV thread ever created, then I’ll just leave it here. Have a good day, or whatever.
I decided to give you one more chance. So i clicked on your hidden post, and what do i see, another Straw man argument.
He did not “blame the players”. We have been VERY clear that it’s the SYSTEM, not the players and not the map. A system than can be tweaked and a map that cannot, may I add, again.
You failed and I will keep you ignore. You are obviously just a Straw Man troll. Why do you think Blizzard would take you or anyone serious when you act like this? This thread could be a fun thought experiment where we discuss reasonable tweaks to make AV better, but your goal is obviously to sabotage. So, Ignored. again.
Uh no, I’ve always been arguing that the ultimate responsibility for a BG lies with the players and the PvP, which includes all kinds of things like preparation (gear, skill etc.), execution (as in what choices are made and so on), and luck with setups as well as the social aspect. Everything else is irrelevant.
So he’s not wrong per se that I’m blaming the players. He’s just oversimplifying it in a very dumb way.
I never said I like the system in any of my posts I agree with you on that bodiesan. I’m just stating facts that do play in to why the Allience are losing in AV and it’s like the horde here put blinders on when it has anything to do with the map. Map can be tweaked you already said yourself they fixed the backdoor. Players are always different you cannot blame huge amount of losses solely on the playerbase when there is obvious advantages to one faction.
Horde says its player mentality is the reason Allience lose I 100% disagree if the map was balanced we wouldn’t even have this discussion just same as when Allience could premade and horde gave up it was not player mentality that caused Allience to win it was an advantage.
Coordinated players in a premade in voice Comms will indeed smash players who are random and are not on voice comms.
You said the he was right PER SE that you are blaming the players and you are not blaming the players by themselves so he is not right PER SE. Also when someone OVERSIMPLIFY something, that’s a way to distort something, and it’s a Straw Man when you distorts someones argument and attack the distortion. So he was Straw manning you.
I have had A LOT of experience with Straw Mans on this forum. It’s impossible to have an constructive discussion with a Straw man.
