I think that DBM has to go

While it’s true that the dev team will keep addons and their capabilities in mind when designing their raid encounters, they are not necessarily “tuned” for DBM usage.

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, LFR up to HC is doable without DBM (HC might take a bit more work ofc). In general it will take a few runs with a few wipes to “have seen it all” (which is true even with DBM), but then a watchful player will have noticed the tells that Blizzard implements these days (starting with voice lines, void zones, cast bars, etc.) in addition to actual bossmod-like announcements (the ones you have to manually disable in DBM to avoid double announcements).

I also agree that WeakAuras or buff/aura awareness has become a much bigger factor, especially with the default UI having laughably small unit frames and auras on contemporary screen resolutions (yes, you can increase UI scale, but they’re still much too small especially compared to ElvUI or most custom unit frames people use).

As such I do believe that the “necessity” of addons is more of a crutch that allows Blizzard to postpone (possibly to “never”) to update their UI to make the information (already available in the game) easier to parse or see.

Now as for Mythic, it’s a difficulty level that was created specifically to require split second decision making without any room for error. Here I wouldn’t be surprised if Blizzard goes “they’ll have an add-on for that”, because that’s precisely what the target audience of that difficulty will do and as such crank up the values to “are you mental?!”.

Finally, even with all the built-in tells and DBM, I witness far too many wipes even in LFR. Even after explaining people the actual mechanics. After 15 years, some people still don’t understand Blizzard’s default boss mechanic toolset: Don’t stand in void zones, the “scrum and soak” debuff, the “drop it at the margins” debuff, the “don’t tank them close to each other” bosses, the “all inside this zone or we’re all dead” bubbles, etc.

Yet somehow, even with DBM existing people fail to heed its warnings, prompts and alerts. You ask them “didn’t you see that honking big alert at the center of your screen, with the borders flashing red, that we all need to run into the bubble?”. The answer you get: “Must have missed it, there was so much going on” (and I had this happening not just in LFR).

And this is where it might get interesting: Maybe we are at a point where the encounters themselves throw so much animation, alerts, and voice lines at you, that using DBM just adds a confusing cacophony of “stuff” that fills up your screen… and doesn’t change the outcome at all.

PS: I raid without DBM because I don’t feel it’s necessary once you have seen bosses 1-2 times and you’re not into progress raiding.

dont talk with that shaman blurey its not worth ur time,his “raiding” is buying boosts xD

Troll posts need to go from the forum and not the DBM from the game which people used in the game since vanilla.

They have gone from thread to thread saying that

Me from UK and English/Italian
Transmoggu is German and from Berlin if I recall
Азриил and she is from Russia

Are the same person and that a CM told him that we all use the same IP address to post at exactly the same time and that we all have linked accounts but with different achivements and that I paye for all accounts :zipper_mouth_face:
And people around here accuse me of being a SJW a slanderer a bxtch and a liar .Its fine its beyond a joke when a person who you think is ok calls you a cry baby for standing up for your views .

I might not know you but I know of your actions here which paints a different picture to what you like to think of yourself.

I see the upset in your post, if you really didn’t care you would never have cared to reply to me. Your logic as shown in this thread is incredibly flawed.

Stop caring then like you said to me that you don’t (the irony here is huge), continue to post as normal. I don’t believe you’re posting on 2 characters but I wouldn’t even care if you did. Why you’re even using that as an argument with me is irrelevent to what I pulled you up on.

Many people are fed up with all the arguments about Retail vs Classic, do you really think this is a one way street though? You’d be lying to yourself if you thought it was only Classic players bashing Retail and not vice versa.

No, you got angry and tried to claim that she was discriminating against those with disabilities otherwise you wouldn’t have only mentioned them in your reply. You played the minority card to a generalised statement about the whole player base and it didn’t go how you expected it to.

Take it from someone considered a minority in society, this rhetoric isn’t helpful and can cause more harm then good. I also ask you not to ever use the minority card to start a fight with someone who didn’t target minorities with what they said.

If you wanted to relay the bigger picture then you should have done it, instead you resorted to slander to combat someone you disliked the view of on the forum. You cannot escape that these were your actions.

No, not evil but misguided, it seems I’ve only called you evil in your own head. Your actions are what have made you look bad.

I’d like you to pick where I specifically said here in this thread that it is okay to call people trash and generalise, you won’t be able to because it was never said. If you’re going to slander someone at least do it to someone who doesn’t have the balls to call you out on your BS.

Thats fine, I don’t ask for your respect. You didn’t have to resort to Slander but you did and thats where you lost my respect.

Saying you mimic their behaviours and actually outright calling you one are different things, its not my fault if you choose to act like one.

So what if I said this to you? You don’t care right? Oh wait you continued so you clearly do care, its like you still have something to prove when you have already been discredited for your actions.

You attacked someone who outwardly generalised the playerbase by insinuating that they were discriminating against disabled people with no evidence to back this claim up. You then get called out and get incredibly defensive because you know that you did wrong yet you still try and find a way to justify your actions by use of “they said this/that” which is something that wasn’t even part of this thread. You then get offended at me because this isn’t the first discussion that we’ve disagreed about something on, then turn to “you like to bash me” type of rhetoric and play the victim.

Seriously if you can’t handle criticism then don’t give people things to criticize you about, otherwise things like this will happen.

But it feels like every thread you single me out ,that’s how it feels .

Yet you carry on like somebody gnawing on a bone to make me look bad and make me feel bad you expect me to sit there and let you accuse me of things ?
Surely if you can see somebody or read somebody getting upset the best thing to do is not constantly nag at them for the wrong view?
Iv have made a mistake it how I have posted yet I do not see you doing the same to others .A person called the whole retail base trash but you haven’t uttered one jot to them but decided to pick me to pieces .

I just didn’t use it I said about the saying the WHOLE but you are not reading my views .
Look I am sorry if it came across as wrong to you but iam not going to back down I am allowd a view and its far from slander when he /she is baiting all .

How many times are you going to insult me btw have I been rude and name called/insulted you ?

No you didn’t ask but I did respect you and your views but recently you have seem to want to single me out repeatedly .You earn respect but I will not take being belittled and told my views are wrong just because you don’t like them .

Why you have gone out of your way to make a mountain out of a molehill I do not know .Ive no idea why you dislike me so much to go out of your way to make me feel and look nasty to other posters and that iam evil .
You carry on singling me out its fine atleast you are giving others a rest when you do that .Mock me ,accuse me ,belittle me ,slander me and name call me I will not bow down to people like you .I am not a bad person at all.

Edited

We have taken this post off topic im sorry OP for that I will not post again about this matter but focus on the Topic not the other things .

What happened if you dont like it dont do it.

Why do you have to bring us into your needs and fantasy.

I see very many of the same arguments that have been answered in the first 20 replies or so.

Again the point is that the raids are designed around those addons for higher difficulties and it makes devs bypass visual and audio cues that would make the raid more fun and immersive.

But this would make raids go back to a very simple style for example MC fights were a person could just stand there and dps and just decurse or buff that’s not a thrilling fight .
Like others have said you can raid at high levels without them once the muscle memory kicks in but fights are not designed with them in mind I have explained that the add comes after the fact for the blizzard raid testing team .
The DBM owner wouldn’t know what in the secret phases /added abilities until it hits live servers.
Also like has been said they could do

Servers were addons are banned
You could not use them
Addons changed to allow not all to be shown.

Personally not a big fan of add ons, i only used easyscrapper and tsm otherwise i prefer the original ui and such. For the most part you will be fine without add ons as long as you key bind and know the tactics. I personally hate add ons that make the game yell at you what to do, that turns the game into a chore the most. But if you are going to do higher content add ons like dbm and rio become a requirement. Personally i think its a bad design when start designing the game with 3rd party stuff in mind. Either add it in game entirely or make sure add ons dont become a requirement for people. Looking at rio especially when saying this since they get information straight from blizz. If even people who are not using the add on are listed and ranked in such said add on, maybe it should just be a normal game function instead?

From what they have said they are looking into a RIO version themselves which tbh isn’t going to solve anything but atleast its them and not some site that you can’t atm ignore .

aye it makes sense for them to do it themselves if they are already feeding the info to that site. I havent used rio myself, but doesnt that site have nonsense that makes you pay money to have your score updated quicker?

Theres nothing wrong with discussing the use of addons within the game.

There is the choice to remove and play without them but often people use addons as a requirement to do certain types of content and it puts pressures on other players to conform to the standard of the players rather than just play the game how they like.

This in turn causes for the WoW Dev team to create content in a certain way which promotes the need for these addons even further through people’s continued use of them.

Theres nothing wrong with adding visual cues or sounds for those who don’t want to have additional addons for basic things that Blizzard could code into encounters when they’re creating them.

I’ve recently created a character which I’m currently leveling (its level 30 at the moment) and I’ve removed all addons for it. I know at this level not much can be said as leveling content is trivial but so far I’ve enjoyed the experience more without the use of addons and its removed the need to check and compare various aspects of game play.

I wanted to see the game without addons from the beginning like I did when I first originally started WoW for the first few levels. Very quickly after I originally started the friend who got me into it was like “you need this dps meter and this boss mod” and so on. I added these suggestions and learned what folder to place them in and I’d never expereinced the game without a lack of addons since.

Sounds like Oldmanbarry likes a more old school approach to gaming. :grin:

Im not really sure but a lot of sites are offering “Prem” accounts now like Icy veins and wowhead so it would not surprise me one bit .

I never even installed a single mod in skyrim :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like

Agreed 100%

Its true that you can do that, them and other addon creators have created Patroen pages where players can support them with varying monetary amounts for various “perks”.

literal every mechanic boss is telling different line of text so there is nor worries

While I agree that some abilities should be telegraphed better, mythic raiding is really not easy.
Also I think Blizzard has made great improvements in the above mentioned telegraphing of abilities in Legion and BFA. You can actually tell what mechanic comes your way even without boss mods.

Yes, a broken game is precisely what i want instead of controlling the test environment so everything isn’t datamined.
Are you for real dude? You want to know everything about the next patch a month before it’s even out? What about discovering the content for yourself? Why do you find it normal that you have to read / watch someone COMPLETE the game before you even attempt it yourself? How does that make sense?