I think the fire nerfs have officially gone too far

It’s a common belief. I just don’t think its true. Everyone believes Augvokers have killed balance but I think it was a perfect storm of 4 over powered specs, priest’s mandiority utility and all the externals and dmg patterns having incredible synergy.

Augvoker has insane balancing problems I know, but if they hadn’t release the other 4 specs would have still dominated the meta imo. 5th slot probably would have been a havoc dh, mainly for the magic dmg buff.

Edit: Just spoke to a theory crafter and its all wrong. Fire does not scale better than others with evoker, PI, Bear Pulls or anything. It’s not even the best for AoE rn. It’s just meta on survivability now, apparently.

You walk your absurd claims back at the first hint of scrutiny. Stop making them if they dont hold up. There’s pets, masteries, and all kinds of stuff that can interact and double dip with vers.

Are you counting your chickens before they are hatched? Nobody cares about 3% of sb’s own crap damage. Someone’s 3% will translate into far more damage than somebody elses in a given situation. Aug being good for a spec isn’t decided by your theory of what stats are bis, but how much absolute damage it adds.

From seeing different stat weights. My Shadow gains 6.4 dps per vers, compared to 5.8 on a Frost mage, both 446 ilvl. Mind that the Frost mage sims far higher and should thus getting more out of vers than Shadow if all things were equal. And none are stacking vers to have it boil down to stat DR, which would be another factor that leaves vers to NOT be the same for everybody.

I see, i guess it makes sense, in the end most of the buff is primary stats.

I didn’t walk anything back. Just that the overall trinket damage doesn’t matter much.

That’s my point. That aug doesn’t scale better with fire mage (or vice-verca) than other specs. It scales best with whoevers doing the most damage and not much else because vers and primary are basically the same for everyone.

That’s interesting. I can’t answer that without getting way further into than I want too. But I’m not making this stuff up about vers, that is how it’s explained. 1% vers = +1% dmg and all specs have the same values for vers.

Stat weights change depending on the gear you have on first off.

That is not how stat weights work at all.
DR is NOT the only thing that matters.

That is per stat point of vers NOT per % of vers.
It also changes DEPENDING on what you are doing.

1% of vers is 1% damage because 1% versatility the stat is literally 1% damage and 0.5% damage reduction it is literally what the stat does.

If another stat is more damage per point than versatility what that tells you is that 1% of that stat is worth more than 1% damage. (assuming you are not hitting DR for stats)

I guess this is why places like raidbots have gone away from wanting people to even look at stat weights if people misunderstand it this badly.

It completely changes just by changing talents.

Thats his point. And thats not how % works

i see i worded that badly. The reason is because i was making a far to long post showing how stat weights changes even just changing the amount of targets and or talent points with proof of how it changes with actual number it became a massive post so i deleted most of it.
but yeah that part is just badly worded

That was not your point. Go back and read what you wrote yourself. You have been sitting here telling people that Aug is not good for Fire when the entire world disagreed. You even specifically addressed that it’s “common held belief but I think it’s wrong”.

Who asked? Did you just click this thread scrolled all the way down started yacking without having looked at the context?

You did when you have proven to not understand the difference between what a stat does in % and what a stat does per stat point.

And also you have no control over who can speak in a public forum.

I did, you however have not understood fundamentally how the game works before talking about something you know nothing about.

You are just plain wrong in what you have been saying.

You go back and read it. I didn’t say its not good for fire, I did say fire doesn’t scale especially well with it and people think it does. Apparently that’s true.

I also thought our synergy in the comp was more PI, paly cdr and uncapped aoe but I was wrong. Apparently there’s much better aoe specs and PI targets around, we are just meta for our survivability.

“Feed the flames child of ash”
“Let your fire devour the world”
“Let it all burn”

-Emby the friendly fire.

Aug is not doing anything for fire that fire doesn’t already do for itself, which is the point being made. In fact if you want to get into details aug’s main damage buffs (Prescience and shifting sands) which aren’t just flat damage multipliers have relatively less impact than they do on other specs because of fire’s 100% crit rate in cds and high natural versatility from gear reducing the relative value of more.

Mage has two things going for it with aug, arcane intellect pulling double duty for both increasing the aug’s ebon might value and then multiplying the value of the ebon mights the aug applies to int classes (Though this isn’t a reason to buff a mage, just a reason to have the two in the same raid group. Obviously in dungeons this means the mage also gets buffed) and just the fact they do the mage indiscriminate uncapped AoE in the game.

Dude, they are gonna nerf fire again. What in the actual hell??

I see that my worries were justified.

It doesn’t matter now, let’s hope the s3 will be normal. This season was completely messed up, with this new evoker… It is true that the fire mage as well as the priest and the tank druid needed a little nerfs, but not that much, still the source of the whole ‘‘exodia comp’’ problem is that ****in augment evoker.

I’m afraid that this augment will be a huge problem later on, and if this becomes their standard solution, they’ll nerf everything that works better with it…will result in a bunch of classes that will perform well with evoker, but won’t be worth anything on their own.

I don’t think the support class fits in wow, there will always be classes that work better with their buffs and this will always be problematic for the meta.
So far if some classes were overtuned the solution was simple: nerf, but now its not that simple thanks to this new ****.

August 22nd changes:

  • Fire
    • Flamestrike damage reduced by 6%.

    • Flame Patch damage reduced by 8%.

    • Incendiary Flames can now only proc once every 10 seconds (was 8 seconds).

    • Conflagration damage reduced by 10%.

    • Developers’ notes: Fire Mage damage in heavy AoE scenarios is still higher than we’re comfortable with. We intend these adjustments to further rein it in.

Yea this is getting stupid. Other class’s can and are keeping up with me or doing better aoe dmg than me on current mythic +21 / 22.

These nerfs are totaly arbritary. Id like to know what the muppets in charge are smoking.

S3 will be same crap…Nothing will change because this expansion is already busted…Even after the nerfs fmage, spriest still will be S tier pick for M+ because of the utility and synergy they have…Other classes got left in the dust without reworking or rebalancing of utility…Maybe instead of nerfing 2 meta specs devs need to buff underperforming specs.

It still won’t be a huge problem for the average person anyway, last 2-3 weeks im playing with my hunter, everyone crying about it but mm and survival still fun and can do well on keys around 20. I have a paladin, mage, and druid and i have fun with all.
I don’t really go above 24, with pugs its enough, i dont have a fix team now so i dont really care about very high key pushing.

What i want to say, yes they messed up the HIGHT end competitive meta, but it is dosent metter for me and for the average players. I still can finish my +20-21-22-23-24 keys with any of my characters. If i want to start a new one i can get 440+ ilvl and the same key level in 3-4 weeks with anything.
Anyone who thinks this is not so, is simply looking for excuses or just dont know how to play this game.
Usually those who don’t even go above 20 crying because of the “meta”.
The meta dosent even metters belov a LVL, and that level is much higher than what the average player would approach.
There are a lot of stupid players, lot of FotM fire mages, who dont know how to play, but still forcing it because of the meta… even after the many nerfs, they are so dumb that they don’t see that the RIO record keys were all made before the nerfes… With the perfect SKILLED teams, not with randoms where tanks didnt even know what theyre doing.

It’s almost like whoever does the balancing doesn’t actually play the game.

If heavy AoE is a problem but regular AoE isn’t, you don’t go and nerf the damage of every AoE spell, you adjust target caps instead, adding them or tightening them until the heavy AoE is under control.

Blanket nerfs just mean that we’re back to 10.1, where you can’t play Fire in anything but high-end keys where mass pulling is the norm.

4 Likes

Pretty much.

Kinda the same with shadow p, the problem was not damage, their damage is actually pretty average now, yet they are still meta, why is that?

I don’t know, man it’s only been said like a thousand times.

nah, still not enoug. Right now first fire do more than first outofmeta spec at 15-20%. Thats what i’m talking before, mage fun. And as i said in previous patch, they will be nerfed again. And here we are.