You are delusional.
Banned on warcraftlogs?
I’m giving up on Fire now, I love the playstyle and the mobility, but as it stands, if you don’t get Power Infusion, don’t have an Aug Evoker and don’t have a tank that pulls 10+ mobs on every pull, your damage is just a footnote, especially after this next set of nerfs.
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Dude the nerfs that has happened in the past did nothing for the spec it was still the best spec to play.
it is interesting how you did not even come here talking when it finally clicked that the nerf that happened when you made this thread did not really do much of anything other then lower the amount of damage.
This new nerf might actually manage to bring mage down to a level where it is good but not always the best choice remember you have more than 1 spec to pick from.
You are asking for a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
The idea from the start with why some specs are target capped and others are not and so on is Niches, blizzard was talking about these things in the beta when people asked about it.
The idea is that if you are not target capped you should be the highest dps on massive pulls BUT on pulls that fit target-capped specs better they should beat you on dps.
The whole Niches thing is something blizzard have failed hard on though.
But do remember if fire mage gets target capped because you asked for it this will follow you into the next expansion the expansion after that and potentially the one after that and if it does that it might even get worse you might be hard-capped at 4 targets or 5targets do you really want this future for the spec?
Lets see a neiche that only gets filled by pre mades at very high level keys and screws over the rest of the mages pugging.
Or decent aoe damage where you can pug pretty much whenever you like.
Pretty sure what majority of the mage playerbase would select.
Imo they should slow ignite spread (and buff mastery) so its good on low target counts, balance flame strike so its good on 5-8 targets with soft caps and then make living bomb good on 20odd targets. That way you can balance each talent properly and control dmg on different size groups meaning you can tune it for mdi without destroying it in average pugs.
I keep telling them I’ll come work for them but they ignore me!
But then why was there a rework at all? If it is nerfed back to the position was before. Only difference now you using flamestrike and easier to build up your damage.
Fire was the rank1 before the reworks, on high end levels like MDI, but still it was nearly useless on low keys with full randoms.
Do you think it’s normal if certain classes won’t be playable by themselves only with a certain setup? Because the ones you are talking about on warcraft logos are still the first, they are still doing it exodia comp.
Anyway, you’re right, what this setup did is not normal, this whole power spike they got is the fault of blizzard, and especially of augment evoker.
But somehow the functioning and balancing of the classes should be solved in such a way that it can be used at all levels and not only with a specific setup, the fire mage has had problems with this part so far, and after these nerfs it will still be there.
And if we start with this logic, then they failed again, with fire being a usable class for everyone, because with an average random tank, an average fire mage will not do numbers like exodia comp top players.
With a random teams, without normal communication, the pulls fire needs are almost certainly wipes.
Right now we havn’t see compilations without mage. Premade or pugs. Only with mage. Even after first nerf. In first season mage was little more than avg dmg in pugs party. Now you can’t even choice. And i’ll repeat, it after first nerf. Mage must be shut down, but it’s not a resolution at all, cause only mage was in +30 keys, but now even mages can’t do same lvl, so this season done with aug+sp+mage in 0.1% and it’s didn’t change. Right desigion it’s boost everyone else, but even with a little rework and new spec they broke m+ at all, so i don’t think it’s will be good design.
About first season. Was almost 20k unique fire mages and more than 60k mages at all in 20+. It’s much more, than mages right now. So i don’t understand, why people talking something like “oh mages was bad in pugs”. Today we have 59 unholy in 20+. Thats bad. 20000 it’s pretty good result.
Na lets just shut down all DK’s, make DKS unplayable without a specific class to buff them, that would be fair right?
They already. Don’t worry. 59 unholy and 150 frost dk players in 20+keys. Against 20 000 mages. Unholy unplayble without PI in raids and m+ more than 9 years. Welcome. In m+ they took same position as mage, without aug and sp it’s unplayeble too. But wait. Mage even without SP and AUG top dmg. With them it’s still ~200dk dd in m+ against 20 000 mages. If mages dmg will be nerfed at 30% right now, that would be fire, but i don’t even ask about it. Mass invis, dispells, hero, polymorf, a lot of cc, range and a lot of blinks. Even your rune was removed, while our pool wasn’t, and we can’t leave our pool too.
Above 20s isn’t the problem so much its below 20s with smaller pulls. The more they nerf fire based on massive aoe pulls the more useless it becomes at smaller pulls.
Last season in halls of valor, fire was awful because most the pulls were tiny. The dungeon pool is kinder too us rn, but with the design of fire and all these nerfs we could end up in a really bad place for 10.2.
We have the same problem now in NL. Except for the trash before the first boss the pulls are small. I used to play frost in there but our secondaries are complete opposites now. I’ve been working on a mastery cleave build and gear set but because I don’t clear mythic raid, crafted gear is to op and precious to waste on a second set.
I think you are not objective on this topic, if we look at raider IO, there is the same top list that started in the first 2 weeks of the rework+aug release.
In that list you don’t see a fire mage who would have done anything without PI+aug.
The only problem left with the fire mage after the nerfs is that it is still FotM + the utility it has had so far. SH is the same, its utility is just crazy Mass dispell makes it a fix pick to half of the dungeons, Mind Sooth is another broken stuff… pls now its stronger than shroud. +they have good damage ofc.
Other classes scaling well with evoker too, forexample a good destro lock is a beast too, but compered to the mage+sh utility its not that good. nobody talks about the shaman either, because it’s not FotM, but it is the only class that made it into the top 200 in the exodia comp in the mages place.
I’m still not saying that it didn’t need to be nerfed, but the real problem is the augment evoker. Now mage and sh will be completely nerfed, then the other classes will line up nicely who scale better with it than average. And what will be the solution? are they nerfed too? because they want to keep up with the ridiculous support class?
Think about how many augment evokers became 3k+ RIO from nothing in 1 week, so many people had no idea what they were doing at first, obviously, it’s ok for MDI level players, but a lot of idiots were able to easily reach a high level simply because the evoker is broken.
I’m not saying that fire mage or SH is the most complicated classes in the game, but for those who run keys 26-27 or larger with them they didn’t start without a clue.
On keys around 20-22, where most FotM fire crashes, I no longer dare to invite a mage cuz there is a high chance that they are bad… But the evokers… no metter how stupid they are, they still OP, unless they are permanently dead.
The normal DPS classes could never be balanced normally either, how do you think it will be solved with this “support” class?
I can’t even imagine how this could be solved so that the whole meta doesn’t collapse because of it. There will always be classes that scale better with it, especially those with MASS AOE.
So you would be fine with losing the Meta spot?
These months where mage was not meta has proven you wrong on this.
And YOU are one of the people who have complained about his you would be complaining about this change as you have proven that you would do.
Keep talking out yer bum hole mate, I honestly dont care what you pretend to know about me.
And there is the attitude that you are so well known for.
You have shown yourself that you will complain and not actually like it if it is the case that is a FACT at this point and proven by yourself in your own comments.
You can change your mind on it for sure but you have not shown to be capable of doing this.
And you have now shown that being an angry child is your way of being.
We easily can filter it at players per weeks and will see, what we have 90%+ mage/aug/sp/bear/hpal, and 10% of others.
In logs mag perfectly do 366k in BH without aug, probably with SP.
Every class scalling without evoker too, but they can pass 300k overall dps in BH, while mage do 366k+ without augmentation and 450k+, others dps can’t pass 300k without augment, and don’t even think about 400k with him. Mage must be nerfed in numbers, and probably in utility. Not only mage scalling at big pulls, but only mage can do this numbers and be top dps in every dungeone, even in VP where no place to big pulls. Before first nerf it was 20-30% difference. Now it’s 10-20% difference at any lvl of gaming. So usually 3k rio mage can’t play at 3k rio, and boosted just for overperformed spec. There are also exceptions. But i saw how mages in 25 declince cc affix, cause they have SP in party.
The mage was meta, but not for everyone. On MDI it was already a top pick, but only for the top players. And the problem is that we will get there again, without PI+evoker and big enough pulls, it will be lost.
Why mages have top keys in VP then? Cause of big pulls? Everyone else can take PI and AUG buff, but why only mage without PI+evoker lost? Unholy playable only with PI as long, as pi can be buffed by priest at targets who is not himself, but nobody care. Why we need to be care now? Cause of metacry? And even without SP and AUG mage will do more, than every dd spec in this game. And cause of this others players, except mages, augs, sp, bear and hpal can’t play m+ now at all.
I believe that at your level on 3.2k+ RIO every CTF geared skilled mage can do good numbers. But let me tell you something not everyone pushing 25+ keys. Not everyone have a team and with full pugs its not that simple as you said. I play with several characters, I meet many random people, obviously with a lot of mages in recent weeks, most of these were around 2.5-2.9K rio, since with full random teams, I don’t force huge keys, 22-23 is the maximum.
If you are absolutely right, then every mage who is around 2.8k could be top dps, but not… I’m glad if they wont’t die in all the nonsense avoidable stuff.
Anyway, I admit, at your level you must be right, but what happens between 20-23 simply upsets me.
I would expect 2.8-2.9k RIO players not to be clueless, but they are, i know, that’s a different topic, but its still relevant i guess.
It all starts from the fact that even getting gear is easier, and literally every idiot can easily be 445+, it’s okay if they’re clueless… if they’re patient enough, they’ll get the RIO.
And we are again at the point where it is not possible to choose whether the random will be good or not.
But back to the topic, I trust that after the nerfs, the many FotM reroller firemage will find another class or idk.
But honestly, in the current situation, it is worth more to invite another class at my level, because there is a higher chance that they will know what they are doing. Fire mage is a lottery.
You keep talking about top keys, what % of players do you think reach that level? If someone doesn’t go for top keys, does it not even matter that they can enjoy the game?
I’m just saying that blizzard should somehow solve the fire mage issue so that the balance on the TOP keys does not come at the expense of the lower levels, don’t ask me how to solve it, I’m not a developer. But augment evoker sure doesn’t make things easier.
I understand what you mean here the problem is that what those top teams do trickles down so meta in those top keys is almost always what is considered meta when going down in key level even though there are better options.
This part you seem to be very strongly against and i do not understand how you can not have followed the meta progression over time to know this is the case.
What the Top teams do 100% trickles down this is just how it is and it has become more and more of a problem over time as someone who has played offmeta specs and pugged a lot i can tell you it has only become worse from every expansion.
Then ask to be target capped and you will not have this problem it will however very likely cost you the meta spot or simply make Frost a better choice.
Doing this however has a massive chance to make you target capped for the rest of time so choose carefully.