It’s not mutually exclusive.
If you’re farming HC raid, what’s stopping you from doing M+? You’re at an advantage, because not every M+player has access to weekly Raid runs with guild. But every raider can go and PuG M+ whenever they want.
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Reroll horde and I will trade you 465 gear cheaper than token 
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Because M+ gear is significantly weaker than raid gear ilvl per ilvl.
If everyone could farm out trinkets and weapons from raids the M+ ones would become redundant
id rather eat my shoes
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Like the first boss on King’s Rest Tyrannical week.
Err… no? If you have a player in your five man group that doesn’t know a mechanic which can cause a wipe you’re most likely unable to complete a fight.
Meanwhile if you have someone dead in your 25 group doesn’t give you much trouble.
About gearing with M+; I’ve had more items from farming a few bosses in Heroic than farming multiple keys at various levels.
Raiding gear in some cases still better than M+ gear, for instance weapons.
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Trolls don’t wear shoes usually!
You will fit in a blast 
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For example, but i personaly see a lot more groups failing tos forst, or WM sisters, on tyra ome mistake and its wipe, lose of BL, and usualy some1 quits
Exactly. Today I did a King’s Rest +15, healer needed to heal more in order to keep DPS’s up.
We wipe four times, at forth pull we killed it (since it was the last pull for me).
That dungeon took away one hour and 15 minutes of my time.
I get one loot or non from a dungeon, instead with raiding this patch you have 12 chances to get loot.
I don’t see this taking off, although you can go back and rekill a boss as many times as you like and use a Seal of Wartorn Fate to try your luck again until you run out.
Yea its harder than it seems, and little mistake gona ruin key timer easy, but still i find most of joy in m+ these days
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Why is this even a discussion? You can spam M+ for as long as you like, you can not do that for a raid. A raid is like a daily, you got to wait until it is up again, once a week, aka time gating. If you have time to play the game, M+ is the best way to gear up quick. You can spam +9s to keep it simple, and get lots of 455 gear, plus a 460 in the weekly chest. You can also do 9, upgrade to 10, fail, another 9, upgrade to 10 etc, you don’t even need a super group.
That key was a bummer but I agree with you.
After that key I did a MOTHERLODE +14 two chest as tank.
New Tank, my tanking was a bit off but everyone was please at the end of the run since it was a good timer key.
The healer was awesome, didn’t need much healing as Blood but he could keep up with chain pulls and Busting stacks!
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my tauren dont wear shoes. go give me 465 now
I’ve seen people leave after 1 wipe on +6 because someone accidently pulled
Deffo full of them
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Even though most rio elitists will leave after 1 wipe so their precious score doesn’t get affected
I mean why would i stay in a run that does very minor mistakes, i came to +3 this and im not wasting my time in a group whos only gonna +2 or even +1 it
Leaves
-Mentallity of alot of people
Oooh boy where do i even start
for one, i’ve spammed m+, atleast 3 a day ( only +8-12 ) just to get a bloody shield
Still not dropped!
And 60%? its more like f**king 20% for me
Oh yeah and you can only get titan residum in weekly chest, they dont drop in end of dungeon in case you didn’t know …
Yeah, almost 2 loot chances while m+ gives you 1 in that time + high chance of people leaving & ruining the run making you start over
I actually prefer raiding over m+ …
Only reason i bother with m+ is for weekly & to help out friends & play with them
It’s +12 +11? i havent done a +11 in quite some time, but i know +10 gives 455 & +12 460
Can if you play more than 1 character 
Filthy casual
Sure
I mean you can’t even get 475 gear from m+ spam, but sure
If that f**king works for you i guess
Aren’t you on a mage?
And you told me earlier you heal on priest
Which is a joke spec to most i’ve heard from
Maybe thats why you so salty, people decline disc cuz they are trash, and holy isn’t a part of the meta so high end people will decline you
Naaah dont think you have done a +11
I know healers should dps and such, but if your healer prioritize dps over healing i would straight up flame on him tbh
Its why i prefer raids, you have to dps as a healer and some let it go to their head to the point where they think they are a dps in healer spec that only needs to babysit the tank once in a while
Only thing that can be difficult is teamwork, tanking the blame & awakening
What do i mean with awakening? its a typo … jokes aside if you don’t take the route some dps want you to they’ll leave or whine about it the entire run in most cases
roflmao…rio score 203123012 >>>aoe laser beam>>>bursting x6>>wipe>>>omfg healer l2p>>leave
Well, to be fair, 6stacks is pretty managable if it doesnt happen every single pull, little CD here and there…
But i get your point
ahahahhhahahahahahahahahah, please dont post anything on the forums ever again, thanks 
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So you can’t even argue against how imbalanced it is that each raid boss has a weekly lockout yet +11 Freehold can be spammed over and over with no effort. At the very least I would like to see m+ gear nerfed in raids. The current progression system is based on people gearing out from m+ and then face-rolling the heroic raid, the raid gear is useless compared to m+. Heroic raiders don’t even have gear rewards to look forward to since the m+ chest nullifies it.
heroic raid is 100% easier than timing +11
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