Mythic+ WELFARE gear ruined the incentive to raid and pvp. The core of game is now about speed running dungeons.
Let’s check the facts:
Raids generally have better trinkets and weapons.
Raids have weapons with unique corruption effects.
Raids generally have powerful essences like Vitality Conduit and friends.
Raids is the only way you can get the highest item level in the game, atm 485.
Based on these facts I conclude that only Normal/HC scrabs are complaining about M+ rewards and think that raiding Normal/HC is harder than M+ when they barely manage a +14 with their decked 460+ gear and then go on to call M+ gear welfare gear. lol.
I do M+ and PvP because I like it not because of the rewards… even though I admit they should really go back to the drawing board and review the whole PvP experience both in terms of balance, rewards and whatnot.
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could be fun ye
since m14 drops 460 gear, he is not outgearing a +14 especially with ilvl inflation from neck, back and azerite garbage.
Why?
Raids drop azerite gear, while m+ does not drop azerite gear, so they give you a currency to buy a random piece every 3 weeks (avg.) which is 99% of the cases total garbage
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You still don’t get it. There’s not a single m+ player that would want to give up their titan residuum for what raiders have.
I would prefer m+ would just drop azerite 
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ROFLMAO ok ;p bye
this is why, good people of battle.net forums, you never invite kazzak players to your group
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Doing 12 HC boss give you 12 chance of getting loot tho, so you need to do 12 Keys to equal that.
Raid bosses have way less loot per boss, and makes them way more reliable at dropping what you need, unlike keys that have a full loot table, and for example if you want to target the Sethraliss staff you will probably get a ton of gear you don’t need before that things drop if you are not lucky.
Also Raid Azerite have BIS trait while M+spammer get an RNG loot fiesta unless they wanna pay an insane amount of residuum. My first 480 azerite came from raid not from M+.
Also please people say M+ are a joke, okay fine what about raids? Can you tell me the hard part of any HC boss?
False.
A single +11: 0.6 drops + 1.0 chest + 0.33 residuum = 1.93 pieces of gear, and 1.33 of that will be superior ilvl than heroic.
12 heroic bosses: 0.2 x 12 = 2.4 pieces of gear
2x +11 gives more gear than killing 12 heroic bosses.
This means one hour of playtime in +11 per week gives far superior loot progression than clearing the entire heroic Ny’alotha each week, which could take up to five hours if your guild has it on farm.
Not true since Carapace and N’zoth both drop 470,wich is 5 ilvl higher compared on what you get in the weekly chest, even if of course not guaranteed.
And also what you get from titan residuum is completely RNG and unless you are lucky you may get a garbage piece of azerite.
Wanna talk about the bonus roll? Since boss have way less loot is way easier to target what you need, compared to dungeons.
Also wanna talk about guaranteed corruption on some raid items, wich again are easier to target?
ah yes because I actually have a brain unlike all of the m+ praising morons on the forums who think doing a year+ old content is hard gotcha m8
reminds me of all the people who were saying classic raids would take a lot of time to down LMAO same sh different version of the game 
The game would be so dead without gearing alternatives to raiding lol.
If you’re using maths based on weekly stuff for your calculations please be honest and use weekly considerations like bonus rolls.
Which brings raiding up to 3 pieces of gear for a weekly clear average and a single freehold run sits at 2.13.
A second run in the same week brings it up to 2.93, still worse.
So it takes three to outperform.
Your maths is also assuming equality in value of gear. 3 pieces of gear isn’t better than 2 if two pieces are trash. Raids drop azerite gear which holds generally higher value than regular gear and the trinkets and weapons are better too.
So there’s more to it than “it potentially drops more gear, unfair!” You need to consider what the gear is.
You’re also assuming everyone is in a position to just farm 11s willy nilly. DPS generally have easier times getting into raids than mythic due to the difference In the ratio of we assume a raid of 20 the ratio is something like 1:2/3:7/8 tank healer dps whereas in mythic it’s 1:1:3 so competition for spots is very intense. Even if you have the Rio and ilevel you can be refused entry to keys as DPS regularly.
So you need a premade group or guild really to guarantee the runs. Even then they have to want or be available for your keys. Generally in a guild everyone raids together. When I log onto my comm if ppl aren’t game for mythic keys because they’re raiding or just don’t like my key/busy with other keys my ticket to easy groups is gone and it’s chancing the groupfinder and their fickle standards and some nights a dps who isn’t a meta spec just won’t get a group unless you spend several hours looking.
Healers and tanks have a different story, but as DPS raiding is probably better to gear/easier on average.
also take into consideration that many players don’t have the time to run 10 dungeons per week.
If you had no raid log out, it would be the same, most people have no time to raid 7 days a week.
You have a brain alright, you don’t have to tell us that… you just provide an excellent example of what it looks like when you don’t use it.
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Why should they be balanced ?
I mean… Why not balance questing gear and M+/raids aswell ?
Or fishing
He also says right after that his pug raiding experience was doing litterally nothing 90% of the time. So, it’s actually 3 items per hour in raiding, when you’re not waiting for ages.
You dont get your BiS azerites from mythic + because this tear most specs out of 36 gear theres from raid . Raid trinkets are vastly better than mythic + and the weapons in raid are suited with BiS corruption for many specs .
You could run mythic + all day end up with a big full of gear which is useless.
You have not taken any of that into account .
Week 1 season 4 lots had curve but not many had cleared 10+ keys .
You need to look at whole picture and stop being so narrow minded .
The concept of mythic + was for small guilds ,groups of friends and small communties to have a challenge its raiders who have turned it into “we must go there” no you dont at all you could stick to your raids and stop just like we did from classic to wod.
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- Azerite Pieces with great traits (3 important slots)
- trinkets
- weapons
- guaranteed corruption on some pieces
Please, how is M+ gearing faster or better? 1 RNG Azerite piece per two weeks. Yea great, if you can alternatively use it for an OS. Corruption; I have seen 1 crap one and 1 decent one out of the last 44 runs above +10.
The amount of items may be bigger in M+, doesn’t mean the quality is too…
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