Then why do raiders feel pressured to do m+ constantly and not the other way around? That alone disproves the argument. Pretty sad that the heroic raid Blizzard spent almost a year designing is a waste of time in terms of reward compared to +11 Freehold.
And with titan residuum you can buy heroic azerite EVERY WEEK just from completing a +10.
You miss the point the raid gives each spec there best in slot traits.
At this point its fair to say you are trolling .
No raider is forced at all nobody sat there pointing a gun its there own choice .
Raiding mythic still gives the best and most gear .
You laugh now because this is ridiculous but it’s the same logic blizz used to justify azerite gear not dropping in M+.
What are you talking about? Small chance of azerite dropping in heroic raid vs guaranteed heroic azerite each week just from doing a +10. And then you get mythic azerite every three weeks, just for doing three dungeons. It’s clear where the better reward is for time and effort spent, regardless of traits.
This isn’t about mythic raiding which is only a small minority of playerbase, it’s about the fact that heroic raid is a waste of time because of low rewards compared to m+.
Then you are clueless and trolling your bait is so weak .
Yes you can buy a piece but far from 100% its going to be you BiS .
Your whole post is full of flaws and if you need mythic + gear to help you raid you are not as good or progressed as you thought.
And if you raid just for gear its a you problem.
The timer isn’t the complete condition for the dungeon, killing the last boss is the complete condition for the dungeon
The timer is just there to add a modifier on amount of loot dropped and to decide wether next key will be higher or lower
I know with rio that seems hard to imagine but that’s how the system still works
My argument is weak? Your argument is god forbid m+ players can’t buy mythic azerite gear with BIS traits just from doing three +10 Freehold runs, this means it’s balanced. Just ignore heroic raid and pretend it doesn’t exist, because even m+ players know it’s a waste of time.
Were did i say that oh thats right i didnt you are the one harping on about "ma gers guyz’ and “im forced to dungeon guyx” when its your choice .
Oh its 10s now is it going to be 9s next ?
Yes I know this might shock you but in an mmo players are mainly motivated by loot. It’s called taking the path of least resistance. M+ players should feel forced to raid instead of other way around. This is the new content with new mechanics that Blizzard spent almost a year on, not spamming Freehold.
Ive played since 2004con US beta server hate to inform you but we never had the luxury of mythic + from classic to legion .
You are only raiding herioc and its your choice to gear outside it .
You dont even get the best gear from mythics its a none issue.
And you have Freehold issues like its an endless supply of 11 keys free for everyone …
I’d rather see a game that lets us choose the road to our gearing, wether or not that’s through raiding or dungeons. We’re no longer at the point where heroic raid gear drops from emmisary’s and M+ is difficult enough by itself to warrant the loot it gives
Raiding and M+ are different from eachother, they attract different crowds.
To some lesser extend, it’s the same as expecting PvPers to do PvE for their gear (which is also a problem and a bigger one in the current game)
You are pretending that two year old 5-man dungeons with basic mechanics is equivalent difficulty to 20 man raid with brand new mechanics and long boss fights?
No that’s your interpretation of me claiming the two are too different to be compared realistically in terms of difficulty.
If I thought M+ was equally difficult as raids I would have said 'M+ is equally difficult as raids", truth is there isn’t for a simple reason; The two forms of content have their own difficulty system attached to it. Raiding has normal / heroic / mythic with large skill gaps in between where M+ generally has less skill gaps between each level of key but it goes beyond the cap of 3 difficulties
That being said, it’s not like you can easily get to mythic raid level gear with M+ so I don’t really see the issue
Because they need it to compensate for their subobtimal gameplay. And well for the second part of the question you can look at the reason why they introduced M+ in the first place.
If someone can’t plan out 2 or 3 evenings to do raids, they can feel pressured to do it - but it is not going to happen. Everyone and their mothers know that some (or many) BiS items come from raids. You see it in M+, casual PvP and high rated PvP.
So yes some, the ones who min-max, are forced to raid actually.
What are talking about planning out each evening? You can split the raid up so it takes no more time than m+.
I’m saying raiders need more incentive in the same way m+ players get the weekly chest. For example, make each raid boss drop a currency that can be used to add corruption to any gear slot. Boom, suddenly m+ players feel very, very motivated to raid instead of spending all their time in Freehold.
I mostly just get Azerite 
, re-rolls in raids like to give me azerite too 
The fact that they are new and long does not mean that they are hard tho.
Can you tell me what are the hard mechanics in this raid pls?
I cant speak for other raiders but personally I dont feel pressured to do anything. I run m+ to improve my gameplay and gear.
Wrathion: dodging fire for non-mobile classes
Maut: one-shot ability and dps check during stone phase
Skitra: tanks coordinating to discover illusion while raid takes big aoe dmg
Xanesh: 9-12 players must coordinate bouncing a ball around the room. 2x fail means wipe.
Shad’har: one-shot mechanic if raid doesn’t position correctly and move fast enough, also tanks must do very fast swapping
Hivemind: many adds, bosses must die within ten seconds of each other
Vexiona: tanks must beam down adds without killing team, also entire raid must dodge breath coming from sky
Ra’den: Unstable vita which jumps and creates electricity between two farthest players and kills players in its path, also healers need to make sure tank is low on health when decaying wound is applied
and more