If people rather wait for ages in queues than tank it shows Blizzards tank design has failed

Na that’s wrong^^ That’s pro-active. Fear is a CC and it’s casted. You don’t use the totem AFTER the cast happened but before or during. That’s called proactive.
Reactive means the cast already happened and you react to it.

Probably easier to understand with another comparsion: Rdruid vs Holypala
Rdruid puts on hots for healing, preferably before the damage happened. That’s proactive playstyle. Pala heals once the damage already happened. That’s reactive.

Correct, this is exactly what the cast time is here for. So you can prevent the cast before you get the CC. Like first boss in MoT.

In general terms, reactive means you react to events. Here you react to when the cast starts. When the spell actually hits is not relevant to it. The fact that the totem is down before the spell is finished casting and the Fear hits is not relevant here.
You react to the spell being cast.

Proactive means you are ready before the event (the event here is the Fear being cast, not when the Fear hits).
And it wasn’t cast and forget. It wasn’t lazy or whatever. You had to know what was coming and choose the right totem. There was one for poisons too and one that just increase armour. And you had to keep an eye on their remaining time and refresh them if they were running low on time. Or swap to a different one if adds came in.

I think how the overall DPS community treats the average PUG tank is more off-putting than role/class design. I know plenty of tanks who happily tank for friends and guildies but doesn’t queue as one.

I realize I am part of the problem because I don’t queue as tank either for many of the same reasons. The amount of people who went ballistic because the tank did not know the perfect route with all the skips and whatnot the first week of the expansion was abit soul-crushing to witness.

You make such good posts some times. Others are just a clown fiesta. Why?

2 button lmao? C’mon.

Correct.

Your goal is not to prevent the cast tho, it’s to prevent the CC that’s gonna happen. The cast tells you that the CC is about to happen and you should stop it before it’s too late. Therefore proactive. Without the cast you’d maybe have a weakaura telling you that. But if the fear was designed that a weakaura can’t be made, then you could not use it proactive at all. Would mean the totem is useless at all times.

That’s what you got wrong^^
The event is the fear, the cc. Not the cast itself.
The cast is simply telling you that the event is going to happen.

If we would go by your logic, then there is nothing proactive. Everything is reactive but that’s not the case.
Like pre-using a defensive CD. You know the damage is gonna happen, so you use a defensive CD. You’d say it’s re-active but it’s proactive. Because your goal is to stop the damage and you use the defensive CD before the damage happened^^

Try to describe the scenario with fear cast and fear totem to Chat GPT. Maybe it explains it better but it obviously agrees with me too because… well it’s just how it is.

Obviously this should not be taken literally. Of course you hit an interrupt here and there and a CC, pop a defensive etc. But generally you are spamming 2 buttons. (this was more from druid tank pov ngl)
And the example with my friend, he was literally playing Brewmaster with 2 buttons + purifying brew macro once in a while. (not counting interrupt + cc, since he barely cc’d anyway) And this can be taken literally.

Then you’d know how spammy guardian druid is. It’s not healthy.

This can be both.
If you pop the defensive when you see a cast is happening then it’s reactive (you’re reacting to a cast starting).
If you have a long defenive such as Bone Shield which you likely have up most of the time, then it’s proactive. It’s there before anything happens.

This is playstyle, how you’re playing the game, not about when fears or damage hits a player. Are you thinking ahead and having solutions in place for things that might happen or are you reacting to events in real time?

Maybe I find tank druid relaxxing because I have to press much more buttons as resto and quicker too?

Ye that’s what you are confusing. You mean “press and forget” but call it proactive. Like buffing stamina as priest or something.
Meanwhile where you have a difference between reactive and proactive you confuse the events. You think the cast is the event, but it’s the message about the actual event.

Exactly? So if you know there is gonna be a fear soon and use the totem before the fear happens, what is it?^^ That’s literally proactive. Because otherwise you could say you are always reacting to something that’s going to happen even tho it didn’t happen yet, right?

?

How are you even playing guardian and get less APM than resto druid?

Resto druid don’t really have much off GCD, guardian has ironfur off GCD that you press constantly when you run a ToI build.

If we look at the top resto druids, like Vickman, in this run:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/GH8g7ybaQJnLWm1f#fight=14&type=casts

He has 50 casts per minute.

Meanwhile, a guardian druid:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/v4nTYfMDJp8RhGmV#fight=17&type=casts

He has 82.

This is just registered actions by the server. Not counting button presses.

How can you say with a straight face that resto druids are more spammy?

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Nope.
The cast is the event. The cast bar counting down is the time you have to REACT to it. That’s why it’s there.

OP is a 2k raider IO andy why do u even bother arguing with someone like that?

Ok can you name any scenario where you do not react then?^^

My original Tremor Totem. It’s there doing its job before any Fears are cast.

My Lightning Shield is up protecting me.

When I see an Elite that I have to fight I can bring out my Earth Element before the fight and then begin the encounter.

No fight is 100% reactive or proactive. But the game is more reactive now than it used to be.

You call it cast and forget, which is just not a nice way of putting it. You do have to keep an eye on timers to refresh them and you are losing out on other options sometimes.

Some players don’t like constantly reacting to lots of events and I’m one of them.
Some players like the constant action and that’s fine.

My point in this thread is that there should be verious playstyles. Tanks like Monk and DH can be very active and some tanks could be less active. Horses for courses.
Rogues used to be known for having lots of buttons, kicks, guages, kidney shots, blinds, disarms and all that. Some classes were known for fewer spells that hit harder. But we’re moving to a place where most classes do the same kind of things.

But that’s not actually proactive. That’s “press and forget”^^
The totem right now is there too, just like the old one. The only difference is: it’s shorter duration and you can’t use it during fear.
So since using it during the fear is objectively reactive usage, it means the functionality you mean didn’t change. It works the same, correct?

But by your logic that’s reactive. You see an elite (that’s the message, like a cast bar of a cast^^) and you react to it and pop your elemental. See?^^

https://imgur.com/l56Jrhd

Well I guess yes and no.

That’s the point. You do not argue the functionality, you argue the duration. That’s why I said it’s “press and forget”

Ye I get that but to picture an extreme: Imagine every single defensive or utility spell is like the tremor totem back then but give it like 5 hour duration. You press them all once, forget them and go do your dungeon. That would be kinda boring, no? The timing makes the difference. The fun part is prolly subjective, sure.

That’s actually kinda how they work now. Some tanks have more buttons to press than others and all of them have kinda different playstyle, in a sense.

Theat’s why I said there should be options.
Rogues can be reactive with Kidney Shot to prevent a CC and I could be proactive with my totem. Two different playstyles.

Back then when I was the healer in my lttle friends and family guild and I had my four totems down I had plenty of other things to be reacting to players health for one, curses that needed purging, as well as bad stuff to not stand in. I was glad enough that my totems were there doing their thing too.

I mean… this was not the best way to phrase it…^^

Ye I get you but that’s not proactive style or something. That’s simply wanting less buttons to press^^

Yes, and what’s wrong with that.
Some players like mashing buttons constantly, some players don’t.
Two playstyles. Both are valid forms of playing the game. Just because you think one is boring doesn’t make it a less valid form of play.

Although it’s not really fewer buttons to press, it’s about when you press them. I liked pressing them before the fight and refreshing them as and when needed. I got satisfaction from be ready for the fight.
Others like to get that adrenelin rush from reacting instantly to a cast.

And this is a PC RPG, not a console Beat’em Up.

Nothing. I mean I find it boring but that’s just my opinion. All I am saying it’s not proactive play style. It’s just wanting less buttons.

I guess we could argue semantics all day.
We have different definitions of Proative and Reactive Play.