You are the massive moron if you think that Lava Burst spam builds are anywhere near “good design”. That was literally ALL of DF.
The reworks done was necessary. For PvE and PvP.
And THEN what the PvP team does is to add PvP talents / tuning to adapt it to PvP environments.
You know the talent that they removed? The one that gave you free Lava Surge after casting Earth Shock ? THAT can be a PvP talent. Or the S3/S4 tier set.
They can make ALL that into a PvP talents.
So you clearly dont get it. Im sorry.
Go complain to the PvP devs please ! The fact that they dont adapt Elemental for PvP has noting to do with PvE changes.
Especially because you took that 15% of the playerbase doing PvP from under you hat. All you can claim is that there are MORE people doing PvE than PvP.
So obviously Blizzard will try to keep the majority of its players happy. Which happen to be PvE.
And I will repeat ONCE AGAIN for your dense head :
PvP dev team have the tools to adapt that into a PvP scenario. But they DONT.
Don’t respond to me clown. I don’t want to talk to mentally challenged idiots. Firstly do some research clown before spreading nonsenses.
You are so dumb that it cannot even be described. You have problems with understanding what you read.
I don’t want this back. With 11.0.0 rework Ele was good. Lava Surge every 10 sec. Hardcasting way more but this is changed. You dumb moron.
I took it from last year survey you clown. If you don’t know data don’t talk. Again do some research.
It’s not about PvE. Many raiders have different takes than M+ players but at the end Blizzard caters to M+ crybabies like you that will complain when they are lower A tier.
Also if you didn’t know PvP devs don’t tune characters. They design bgs and arenas. Tuning is done by the same guys who make PvE changes. You are so clueless it’s just hilarious. Your points are as good as your interpunction. Go back to school first before posting.
im guessing he ment for pvp the new spec change for ascendant is gonna make ele feel weaker in pvp because at the moment you get a 3min cd or 2 min can’t remeber without looking that make you do big damage if you are not being stopped but with the changes you gonna run out of LvB charges and run out of damage and the cd isn’t going to feel the same
It is not about being weaker buddy again. It means that we have to stack Mastery that we don’t now. It means I have to farm another set of gear once the change goes live. It means I probably have to change the comp I play in 3s. As I said. I don’t mind nerfs. You can nerf Ele - fine. This rework changes damage profile and the way you play the spec. It will turn Ele into CD stacking 100-0 one shoting spec from sustain tempo oriented one. Most likely I would have to switch my Warlock partner to Outlaw for example. This is my point.
I won’t be able to play with two the same people. And rerolling in PvP isn’t rerolling in PvE. You have to learn a lot more than damage rotation.
What dont you get ? Am I getting something wrong here ?
I see 3 “PvP talents” in the bottom left corner. Am I hallucinating ?
To give you an example : S1 of DF resto shaman was in a tough spot. Both in PvE and PvP.
The PvP dev team made up from thin air a talent called “Tide Bringer” to make Resto Shaman somewhat competitive in PvP. Mechanically.
It was a success. So much so, that the PvE devs copied it and put it in the talent tree.
Just to show you how this dev stuff works.
So. Whatever it is that you want, dont complain about PvE people. They have nothing to do. Its the PvP devs that dont move their but.
What years survey ? From where ? I can make up all the data I want. I can look up webpages that say its 30%, others that say its 5%…
Blizzard does NOT publish ANY data. ZERO. NADA.
Anything specific number you say is false. All you can claim is general information. For example : More people play PvE than PvP. But you cant specifically say how much.
i mean Fire has been the build for pvp for a while
i tried lightning 1 shot build for pvp in DF for a while and it was fun but fire was still the go too
even if you wanted to try Lightning 1 shot build its not even a thing anymore because blizzard nurfed the interaction with stormkeeper and over loads so its only the first hit that hits hard the rest of hits hit like a normal overload so its pointless trying to play the one shot build because the 1 shots not even there no more
Jesus. BUT MY PVP TALENT POOL IS STACKED ALREADY. IF I COULD I’D TAKE 4-5. STOP RESPONDING IF YOU HAVE NOTHING SMART TO SAY.
PvP isn’t M+. Where as long as you deal enough DPS you’re good to go. It’s about comps, damage profile and synergies but you aren’t smart enough to understand it.
In season 1 there was Stormkeeper build where you had nice sustain and finishing Power with Stormkeeper but it was too strong. The build you describe is probably the one from US with Lightning Rod. It was never truely viable as you said and yes. Fire build in season 3 was degenerate but 11.0.0 made it good, fun, strong but not just spamming instants.
You can complain all you want. You can even say : We need more PvP talents. You can even say : We need a totally separate PvP talent tree separate from the PvE one.
You can say in PvP this is better or worse. I dont care.
But I seriously cant stand this :
The M+/Raid situation is totally different from PvE/PvP one. PvPers even have their own separate gear.
Like its always someone elses problem ? NO.
Im sorry. PvP has their own dev team. They even have names and titles like “pvp dev” or “BG designer” stuff like that. Its in Blizzard’s webpage !
from what i can tell the new spec changes are nurfs to shamans in pvp or am i missing something the interaction with the ascendant is a nurf to pvp
them changes shaman spec in pve does affect shamans in pvp even if they have extra talents in pvp that doesn’t change the fact the pve talent intertwine with pvp ones
Of course it’s different because in M+ everything is telegraphed. You just learn the dungeon and do the same thing over and over again. You don’t have to juke kicks, you don’t have to rotate schools. Average mob won’t kick you on Nature. It’s completely different story. You also don’t have to learn what to react for with defs because everything is telegraphed. Mechanic x - Astral Shift while in PvP you have to react to CDs. And don’t say PvE again. M+ and Raids are two different things and two different communities.
There was an interview with Chris Kaleiki - PvP dev in Blizzard who left in BFA and who was Monk designer. Do you know why he had both roles? Because as I said PvP devs are literally designing BGs and Arenas eventually gearing. Tuning is done by all people responsible for the class and there has to be an agreement. For example Destru was broken for the half of BFA because Warlock devs were busy working on balancing corruptions. You have 0 idea. Why do you speak?
And for the last time. There is no space before question mark or explanation mark. Learn to type
The way you will play now is tack Mastery. Cast Stormkeeper then Primordial + Ancestral Swiftness for Ancestors. You will press Ascendance for Mastery buff and 1st Lava Burst for Master of the Elements → Lightning Bolt → Lava Burst → Lightning Bolt → Lava Burst → Earth Shock. Primordial will give you Totem of Wrath for more Crit damage. It will be literally 100-0 gameplay. Quite degenerate - do nothing between Ascendance and then try to one shot with Stormkeeper.
they nurfed stormkeeper in pvp a while back no? and ont top of that overloads from stormkeeper have been destroyed so its never gonna 1 shot anyone anyone anymore
But they are intertwined because we share gear. Which is a major component.
I dislike it. Others like it. Either way, its unlike PvP where other than the Tier Set you guys have separate gear and ways to acquire it.
OK. You made me look for this stuff… WHAT IS ALL THAT THEN ? Explain that to me. And that is only the stuff I found in the most recent patch notes. I wont go through all the DF stuff because its stupid long how much tuning PvP gets.
Do you seriously have a problem distinguishing class design from PvP tuning…
With every response you prove me I’m right saying you’re clueless. English might not be your first language it’s neither for me but you struggle with understanding what you read. You literally don’t understand what I mean and keep posting the same thing.
Again:
I DON’T CARE IF MY CLASS IS STRONG AS I’M NOT YOU. I WOULDN’T CRY IF MY SPEC IS B TIER.
I DON’T LIKE THE GAMEPLAY AND ADDING 1 MORE PVP TALENT WON’T FIX IT.
Read it carefully or put into translator before you will post again.
How about you read me for a second ok ? English might also not be your first language.
I dont believe you. It can be fixed with PvP talents. They can 100% do it. They did it before. Not just with Shaman, but with other classes as well. Including your beloved SP.
The most recent shaman example when I played PvP was the Tidebringer talent. The PvP team realized the GAMEPLAY problems RShaman had before anyone else and added that talent.
I want to repeat what I just said in caps so you get me :
THEY FIXED RSHAMAN GAMEPLAY PROBLEMS WITH 1 PVP TALENT !!!
So im sorry. You are wrong. They can most definitely do it.
The question is why dont they do it. That is a much more interesting question, and I will let you answer that since you do PvP and I dont.
I’m literally blocking you. There is no point of speaking to you. You are just dumb, clueless and biased.
You still don’t understand that there are problems that 1 PvP talent cannot fix. You cannot fix whole damage profile and stat priority with one talent. There was Tidebringer but nobody played that set in PvP back then. People prefered stats so Blizzard didn’t have to fix any talnet. Players fixed it themselves. But pushing Tidebringer with set pieces is completely different than changing whole playstyle. To understand that you’d need to play one whole PvP season first. You cannot mess up class design and then expect to fix it with 1 PvP talent. That’s literally what happened to Affliction from BFA to DF. It was a joke of a spec. Nobody treat is serious. Same thing Breath of Sindragosa Frost DK. No matter how much you’d tune it it won’t work due to lack of uptime you have non stop in PvE. That’s why PvP build for Frost DK was always different.
It’s clear you didn’t play PvP at all to spread such nonsense.
This is just wrong. Fire ele was already dead there.
In PvE, the optimal single target “rotation” is literally 90% Lightning Bolt spam because FoL talent is too strong. In PvE, Lava Burst is pressed only and I mean literally only on Primordial for the haste buff. Lava surge ignored, MoTE and PoM ignored.
You are dooming hard and got this backwards, they are trying to cut back on ele playing exclusively lava or lighting.
I am casting the same amount of Lava Bursts on PTR, the damage and proc rate are identical to live.
When the first rework came to beta, you were telling people you didn"t even pick Ascendance and thought it was an overkill, now you are saying the spec is gutted because they changed it.
If you are concerned about DRE, fine that is valid. But I doubt they will not buff the proc chance if they see it is too low. Also, Aftershock is looking pretty appealing now.
It is ok to be concerned, but to overeact this much over changes that had been on ptr for not even a day, I just don"t understand it.
You are talking about 100-0 gameplay every two minutes, but we still have a 30 sec primordial+ancestors go. It seems to mee the more optional gameplay now would be to pool some maelstrom and then dump ES, our hardest hitter after it.
P.s. seriosuly m8 what is with you calling other people morons over having different opinions, you are better than this.
It’s not about the opinion. It’s about not being able to understand what he is reading.
And as I said I still had DRE. But neither DRE nor normal Ascendance works the same. Also at the moment you’re not forced into stupid Stormkeeper. Picking Stormkeeper automatically makes you take Power of the Maelstrom and Echo Chamber. Which I didn’t take before. If I took them and buffed Mastery I’m autmatically forced to go Ascendance now and go for Mastery build. In fact I have less choice than I had. Earthshatter is also must have since your set is buffing Earth Shock a lot. It’s not hard to understand it.
With the current patch and 4 set I’m still convinced my beta build is good. Maybe I’d take NS as I value Ancestors a bit more now but that’s it. It’s so simple.
Also guy keeps saying that the whole thing can be fixed with one PvP talent that isn’t true and we both know about it.
Also I’m happy that many people on US forums share my opinion so there is still chance it won’t happen.
yeah i think you’re alone in this lmao, nobody playes ele shaman just to cast fire spells (except you i guess). its all about lightning, always has been.
Nope. It’s about being an actual “Elementalist” who controls and combines the power of all natural forces. Ele is neither the “Molten rock thrower” nor the “Zeus look at me” - shaman.
The 11.0.5 changes address a whole host of regularly noted issues the Elemental community has with the spec. I don’t pretend to know much about PvP, but I do know it has its own separate balancing and design philosophy, and whilst fundamental changes to stat priorities isn’t ideal, you have a couple of months to prepare for this change. Besides which, jury is out on what the stat prio will be because we’ve had no tuning and it will be many weeks before we have a proper sim.
What we do know is that in PvE, the spec will have:
A more complete rotation
A better use of a range of spells
Robust cooldowns that matter
Deeper decision making between talents
Better compatibility between builds and hero talents
The end of lava/lightning divide that has facilitated a range of problematic talenting issues and exclusivities
Some new and improved spell effects
This rework is shaping up to be outstanding, and a genuinely positive completion of the half-baked pre-patch rework we received.
