It is not about being weaker buddy again. It means that we have to stack Mastery that we don’t now. It means I have to farm another set of gear once the change goes live. It means I probably have to change the comp I play in 3s. As I said. I don’t mind nerfs. You can nerf Ele - fine. This rework changes damage profile and the way you play the spec. It will turn Ele into CD stacking 100-0 one shoting spec from sustain tempo oriented one. Most likely I would have to switch my Warlock partner to Outlaw for example. This is my point.
I won’t be able to play with two the same people. And rerolling in PvP isn’t rerolling in PvE. You have to learn a lot more than damage rotation.
What dont you get ? Am I getting something wrong here ?
I see 3 “PvP talents” in the bottom left corner. Am I hallucinating ?
To give you an example : S1 of DF resto shaman was in a tough spot. Both in PvE and PvP.
The PvP dev team made up from thin air a talent called “Tide Bringer” to make Resto Shaman somewhat competitive in PvP. Mechanically.
It was a success. So much so, that the PvE devs copied it and put it in the talent tree.
Just to show you how this dev stuff works.
So. Whatever it is that you want, dont complain about PvE people. They have nothing to do. Its the PvP devs that dont move their but.
What years survey ? From where ? I can make up all the data I want. I can look up webpages that say its 30%, others that say its 5%…
Blizzard does NOT publish ANY data. ZERO. NADA.
Anything specific number you say is false. All you can claim is general information. For example : More people play PvE than PvP. But you cant specifically say how much.
i mean Fire has been the build for pvp for a while
i tried lightning 1 shot build for pvp in DF for a while and it was fun but fire was still the go too
even if you wanted to try Lightning 1 shot build its not even a thing anymore because blizzard nurfed the interaction with stormkeeper and over loads so its only the first hit that hits hard the rest of hits hit like a normal overload so its pointless trying to play the one shot build because the 1 shots not even there no more
Jesus. BUT MY PVP TALENT POOL IS STACKED ALREADY. IF I COULD I’D TAKE 4-5. STOP RESPONDING IF YOU HAVE NOTHING SMART TO SAY.
PvP isn’t M+. Where as long as you deal enough DPS you’re good to go. It’s about comps, damage profile and synergies but you aren’t smart enough to understand it.
In season 1 there was Stormkeeper build where you had nice sustain and finishing Power with Stormkeeper but it was too strong. The build you describe is probably the one from US with Lightning Rod. It was never truely viable as you said and yes. Fire build in season 3 was degenerate but 11.0.0 made it good, fun, strong but not just spamming instants.
You can complain all you want. You can even say : We need more PvP talents. You can even say : We need a totally separate PvP talent tree separate from the PvE one.
You can say in PvP this is better or worse. I dont care.
But I seriously cant stand this :
The M+/Raid situation is totally different from PvE/PvP one. PvPers even have their own separate gear.
Like its always someone elses problem ? NO.
Im sorry. PvP has their own dev team. They even have names and titles like “pvp dev” or “BG designer” stuff like that. Its in Blizzard’s webpage !
from what i can tell the new spec changes are nurfs to shamans in pvp or am i missing something the interaction with the ascendant is a nurf to pvp
them changes shaman spec in pve does affect shamans in pvp even if they have extra talents in pvp that doesn’t change the fact the pve talent intertwine with pvp ones
Of course it’s different because in M+ everything is telegraphed. You just learn the dungeon and do the same thing over and over again. You don’t have to juke kicks, you don’t have to rotate schools. Average mob won’t kick you on Nature. It’s completely different story. You also don’t have to learn what to react for with defs because everything is telegraphed. Mechanic x - Astral Shift while in PvP you have to react to CDs. And don’t say PvE again. M+ and Raids are two different things and two different communities.
There was an interview with Chris Kaleiki - PvP dev in Blizzard who left in BFA and who was Monk designer. Do you know why he had both roles? Because as I said PvP devs are literally designing BGs and Arenas eventually gearing. Tuning is done by all people responsible for the class and there has to be an agreement. For example Destru was broken for the half of BFA because Warlock devs were busy working on balancing corruptions. You have 0 idea. Why do you speak?
And for the last time. There is no space before question mark or explanation mark. Learn to type
The way you will play now is tack Mastery. Cast Stormkeeper then Primordial + Ancestral Swiftness for Ancestors. You will press Ascendance for Mastery buff and 1st Lava Burst for Master of the Elements → Lightning Bolt → Lava Burst → Lightning Bolt → Lava Burst → Earth Shock. Primordial will give you Totem of Wrath for more Crit damage. It will be literally 100-0 gameplay. Quite degenerate - do nothing between Ascendance and then try to one shot with Stormkeeper.
they nurfed stormkeeper in pvp a while back no? and ont top of that overloads from stormkeeper have been destroyed so its never gonna 1 shot anyone anyone anymore
But they are intertwined because we share gear. Which is a major component.
I dislike it. Others like it. Either way, its unlike PvP where other than the Tier Set you guys have separate gear and ways to acquire it.
OK. You made me look for this stuff… WHAT IS ALL THAT THEN ? Explain that to me. And that is only the stuff I found in the most recent patch notes. I wont go through all the DF stuff because its stupid long how much tuning PvP gets.
Do you seriously have a problem distinguishing class design from PvP tuning…
With every response you prove me I’m right saying you’re clueless. English might not be your first language it’s neither for me but you struggle with understanding what you read. You literally don’t understand what I mean and keep posting the same thing.
Again:
I DON’T CARE IF MY CLASS IS STRONG AS I’M NOT YOU. I WOULDN’T CRY IF MY SPEC IS B TIER.
I DON’T LIKE THE GAMEPLAY AND ADDING 1 MORE PVP TALENT WON’T FIX IT.
Read it carefully or put into translator before you will post again.
How about you read me for a second ok ? English might also not be your first language.
I dont believe you. It can be fixed with PvP talents. They can 100% do it. They did it before. Not just with Shaman, but with other classes as well. Including your beloved SP.
The most recent shaman example when I played PvP was the Tidebringer talent. The PvP team realized the GAMEPLAY problems RShaman had before anyone else and added that talent.
I want to repeat what I just said in caps so you get me :
THEY FIXED RSHAMAN GAMEPLAY PROBLEMS WITH 1 PVP TALENT !!!
So im sorry. You are wrong. They can most definitely do it.
The question is why dont they do it. That is a much more interesting question, and I will let you answer that since you do PvP and I dont.
I’m literally blocking you. There is no point of speaking to you. You are just dumb, clueless and biased.
You still don’t understand that there are problems that 1 PvP talent cannot fix. You cannot fix whole damage profile and stat priority with one talent. There was Tidebringer but nobody played that set in PvP back then. People prefered stats so Blizzard didn’t have to fix any talnet. Players fixed it themselves. But pushing Tidebringer with set pieces is completely different than changing whole playstyle. To understand that you’d need to play one whole PvP season first. You cannot mess up class design and then expect to fix it with 1 PvP talent. That’s literally what happened to Affliction from BFA to DF. It was a joke of a spec. Nobody treat is serious. Same thing Breath of Sindragosa Frost DK. No matter how much you’d tune it it won’t work due to lack of uptime you have non stop in PvE. That’s why PvP build for Frost DK was always different.
It’s clear you didn’t play PvP at all to spread such nonsense.
This is just wrong. Fire ele was already dead there.
In PvE, the optimal single target “rotation” is literally 90% Lightning Bolt spam because FoL talent is too strong. In PvE, Lava Burst is pressed only and I mean literally only on Primordial for the haste buff. Lava surge ignored, MoTE and PoM ignored.
You are dooming hard and got this backwards, they are trying to cut back on ele playing exclusively lava or lighting.
I am casting the same amount of Lava Bursts on PTR, the damage and proc rate are identical to live.
When the first rework came to beta, you were telling people you didn"t even pick Ascendance and thought it was an overkill, now you are saying the spec is gutted because they changed it.
If you are concerned about DRE, fine that is valid. But I doubt they will not buff the proc chance if they see it is too low. Also, Aftershock is looking pretty appealing now.
It is ok to be concerned, but to overeact this much over changes that had been on ptr for not even a day, I just don"t understand it.
You are talking about 100-0 gameplay every two minutes, but we still have a 30 sec primordial+ancestors go. It seems to mee the more optional gameplay now would be to pool some maelstrom and then dump ES, our hardest hitter after it.
P.s. seriosuly m8 what is with you calling other people morons over having different opinions, you are better than this.
It’s not about the opinion. It’s about not being able to understand what he is reading.
And as I said I still had DRE. But neither DRE nor normal Ascendance works the same. Also at the moment you’re not forced into stupid Stormkeeper. Picking Stormkeeper automatically makes you take Power of the Maelstrom and Echo Chamber. Which I didn’t take before. If I took them and buffed Mastery I’m autmatically forced to go Ascendance now and go for Mastery build. In fact I have less choice than I had. Earthshatter is also must have since your set is buffing Earth Shock a lot. It’s not hard to understand it.
With the current patch and 4 set I’m still convinced my beta build is good. Maybe I’d take NS as I value Ancestors a bit more now but that’s it. It’s so simple.
Also guy keeps saying that the whole thing can be fixed with one PvP talent that isn’t true and we both know about it.
Also I’m happy that many people on US forums share my opinion so there is still chance it won’t happen.
yeah i think you’re alone in this lmao, nobody playes ele shaman just to cast fire spells (except you i guess). its all about lightning, always has been.
Nope. It’s about being an actual “Elementalist” who controls and combines the power of all natural forces. Ele is neither the “Molten rock thrower” nor the “Zeus look at me” - shaman.
The 11.0.5 changes address a whole host of regularly noted issues the Elemental community has with the spec. I don’t pretend to know much about PvP, but I do know it has its own separate balancing and design philosophy, and whilst fundamental changes to stat priorities isn’t ideal, you have a couple of months to prepare for this change. Besides which, jury is out on what the stat prio will be because we’ve had no tuning and it will be many weeks before we have a proper sim.
What we do know is that in PvE, the spec will have:
A more complete rotation
A better use of a range of spells
Robust cooldowns that matter
Deeper decision making between talents
Better compatibility between builds and hero talents
The end of lava/lightning divide that has facilitated a range of problematic talenting issues and exclusivities
Some new and improved spell effects
This rework is shaping up to be outstanding, and a genuinely positive completion of the half-baked pre-patch rework we received.
Deeper decision making between talents - not sure about this there is always going to be a cookie cutter spec that is picked for most dps in the end it will be worked out and there will be no decisions you will have to make…
Better compatibility between builds and hero talents - hmm id say the farseer has better compatability in the current talent tree due to how flash of lightning currently works for sure losing thats going to reduce the effectiveness of the farseer talent tree by far meaning the other changes are gonna have to make up for alot of missing damage in the change…
Some new and improved spell effects - not everyone is going to care about visuals i personally prefer performance over any “better looking spells”
A more complete rotation - i mean atmo i haven’t seen the rotation change of the new ele on ptr but the current rotation for ele seems pretty easy and doesn’t have many down side apart from spamming one button and resetting cds as fast as you can - but the current rotation seems fine and ballanced
Robust cooldowns that matter - this is true we havent really been a cd spec at all forever - and would be nice to have some cd burst for a change rather then just a sustained dps class
Not really. Basically it’s the same build except two removed talents. Forced incorporation of Stormkeeper and Mastery.
As you said. It’s nice but it’s least I care.
In PvE it’s spamming Lightning Bolts and Chain Lightnings. In PvP it contained Lava Burst, Icefury, Frost Shock and Earth Shock.
Elemental struggled with the amount of maelstrom on beta. Procs are limited to 1 per 10 sec anyway. Playing Fire Elemental with Skybreaker’s made it somehow ok because Fire Elemental increased Flame Shock tick rate. With going mastery and lack of Skybreaker’s it will be absolutely miserable.
For me it’s an irony that after moving from 100-0 gameplay in the begining of SL and going for sustain/tempo (not dampening) gameplay we are back to the same place but with forced Mastery.
Pretty much it. I get it that M+ players rate changes from their perspective because their gameplay feels like Raiden spamming 2-3 buttons Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning and Earthquake but we kinda still play Fire build and not really Lava Burst spam. Weaving Lava Bursts with Earth/Frost Shocks and Icefury. It’s quite nice and healthy gameplay compared to end of DF/SL. We actually hardcast and will play precog like every other caster.
For these who don’t know PvP build:
Pretty different than M+ or Raid build isn’t it?
These changes aren’t na upgrade in terms of gameplay besides getting the most telegraphed one shot in the game. Stormkeeper makes Power of the Maelstrom and Echo Chamber mandatory. So we will struggle with taking new talents. We will have less Maelstrom to play with (keep in mind that DRE doesn’t proc from Lava Burst anymore).
