If you are going to uncap AOE, do it for everyone and remove limits and soft caps

Community General Discussion
#82

Your tantrum of personal attacks is irrelevant; you are the one that responded with a meme personal attack with no arguments; say to someone else “you’re troll!” (by looking in the mirror).

It’s an objective fact that all spells of fire mage are soft capped to 20 targets or less with the exception of 1 spell being in debate but some theorycrafters tend to think it’s also capped.

PS ret is a spec in a class that has at least 3 roles; mages only have 1 role; being god-like at AOE in one spec is expected (fire mages were god-like in aoe for many years).

#83

The problem really isn’t fire mages’ aoe, but their single target strength. Fire mages are a class with no downside - ranged, great aoe, great ST, great mobility, etc. They have everything. No class should be like this. Paladins on the other hand are kinda nicely rounded - HUGE burst, good aoe cleave with 4-5 targets, huge survivability and utility, but bad sustained dps, bad aoe, generally bad mobility. Overall, pallies are great! But they have downsides and places where they excel. There’s a reason why pally almost never gets changed in Shadowlands. It’s that it is just what every class should be - a combination of huge strengths, combined with weaknesses that change your gameplay up significantly. Mages do not have any of that.

#84

I believe they’re nerfed right now at single target. Kyrian arcane is clearly the king of mages on single target (and they aren’t bad at AOE but they are historically the hardest spec to play (possibly in the entire game (if puddles are being spammed on the ground at least)).

But really: people have to know the class to understand how fluid fire mage is at AOE; it so easy to spam AOE that it will easily give the delusion they are uncapped even if most or all their spells are capped to 20 or fewer targets.

#85

so basically since one class can fill multiple roles should be impaired?
what about druids then?
every single role (excelling at it) and still top dog dps because all their aoe spells aren’t capped or soft capped to 20?

do you see the nonsense of your theory?

#86

hmm
how is that in legion and BFA there was more people watching MDI when there were a big AOE pulls
and shadowlands is opposite
no one cares anymore :smiley:

#87

Yes; it is fair if you can only play 1 role to be good at that role on at least one spec. Others have the advantage of being able to play at least 2 roles (sometimes 4!).

I DEFINITELY AGREE that druids are weird on that concept; they seem consistently op at boomkin for example; I suspect a designer has a bias for years.

#88

generally when a game is created or any form of content there is a vision for it, the people who create it have some kind of expectation of how it will be digested, and this is a bit of an extreme example for dungeons i know but blizz designed dungeons to be done in a specific way and the AoE cap was on of the few ways they could have that idea realised,

it would be like going out of your way to watch a TV in a random order, im sure thats the not idea that the creators of a show would have and wouldnt be best pleased of it being all muddles and digested in the wrong way.

feel free to give any ideas on how this can be done, the only possible way is to make pulls impossible to do with more than a certain amount of mobs through random one shots and other such things that need interrupting, the only problem then is that there i just constant complaints about things regardless, basically everything these days is a lose lose situation for blizz, they can never do anything right because everyone has a different view/opinion on what is best.

and yet some of the capped classes like WW are currently the best AoE specs in the game, so i think it did its job reasonably well, the main problem with the AoE cap wasnt really balancing it was people found it less fun.

#89

This is pure speculation on your part and also makes no sense, if uncapped aoe causes lag (which feels completely ridiculous just typing it) then shouldn’t Korthia be lag free since now most classes have capped aoe?

Anyway, aoe cap has nothing to do with lag just as it has nothing to do with the RPGness of a game. Again making the parallel to vanilla, some classes had aoe cap, like warrior whirlwind, while some classes didn’t, like the mage blizzard. There were also encounters specifically designed for these uncapped aoe spells, where dozens and dozens of low health mobs would spawn at once, like in the Scarlet armory after Herod, or the skeleton boss in RFD or the imps in Dire Maul east, etc.

The lag caused by excessive aoe, in a raid like Onyxia for example where too many whelps were pulled, was FPS lag, basically your RAM or graphics card couldn’t handle it, there was no issue with the servers.

#90

Windwalker currently one shots fully geared 259 players with a single spinning crane kick…

you want to remove the aoe cap on this? so not only can they one shot 2 people, 3 people, 10 people!

can’t wait for the rextroy video of a spinning crane kick killing a 80man raid

#91

It’s definitely not the server resources. The proof is that they don’t cap the literal targets (normally/usually); they cap the total damage to act as if only 20 targets existed (for example); in fact: it’s probably more server intensive now since it will have to do the reduction on top (though it might be marginal load).

My assumption from the start which hasn’t changed was that some tanks or tank-y specs could just pull an entire zone and kill it in 3 seconds (especially easy with mechanics like block that can lead them to get approximately 0 damage).

#92

they sure had a vision, and failed massively in the implementation. if they really wanted to put an aoe cap, it would have been on everything, and numbers tuned accordingly. instead it’s a mess.

there are plenty of ways to limit pulls. traps for example. or a sequence of rooms that opens one after the other. more minibosses. or packs with add that if paired will be invulerable, or uber powerful etc etc.
aoe cap is just a blanket over the lack of ideas.

ww is capped to 6 or uncapped vs classes capped to 5 and with much less spell options. it’s no coincidence that feral (capped) is way way underperforming compared to boomkin (uncapped).

#93

But he didnt explicitly say psychiatrist did he? Look dude you want to be a drama queen and a super pedant you go right ahead. You’ll just be showing everyone you are indeed… a pedantic drama queen looking for a reason to rage at someone. I feel somewhat sorry for you if thats the case.

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#94
#95

Yeah: "The following area-of-affect abilities are no longer maximum target capped and instead deal reduced damage beyond 5 targets: ". How some players translated that to “aoe uncapped!” is beyond me (that’s why I blame youtubers that clickbaited with it).

The oxymoron is that not only that phrase says it is not uncapped but that now it may be even more soft capped (depended on spell I guess).

#96

What the playerbase calls uncapped aoe spells right now are softcapped already they use the model that has existed from cata til shadowlands the 20targets then any more it does reduced damage.
This is why Unholy dks had some insane aoe because the went around this and was not capped by it.

#97

That doesn’t explain how people insisted flame patch of fire mage is supposedly fully uncapped (beyond even 20 targets on total damage itself!) because wowhead said so.

I do not discard totally that that may exist in the game, but maybe it’s too limited: e.g. arcane orb could be uncapped … but that’s a travelling ball and not instant.

#98

It’s irrelevant anyway. The patch is too small to be able to damage more than 20 targets even if a tank pulled that many and somehow survived.

#99

well a bunch of classes back in the days of vanilla were AoE capped it was a relic from by gone days, and everyone seems to damn enamered by classic these days that they maybe thought of bringing something back, thats most likely why they chose that rather than a lack of ideas.

but as you have said yourself that is more of a balancing issue that a target cap issue, if they had balanced feral/balance properly then it wouldn’t be a problem. the main reason people dislike the target cap is because its generally just less fun. or at least thats the majority of the complaints that i have seen

given the choice this is a much better system overall, because there isnt many times in any content people are pulling more than 20 mobs anyhow, so the actual soft caps that a lot of spells have will never be reached, and having less damage to more targets makes sense, because otherwise they only take classes like hunter or DK like the end of BFA because they just get free AoE, this way it at least has a better chance to be balanced.

#100

You should really double check what you are writing :slight_smile:

#101

broken AoE or not (which is not btw), it is still not right to cap only some classes. it gives the uncapped ones an advantage.

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