Deplete is the only thing stopping people from removing others from their group the minute they feel something isn’t going their way.
Removing depletion will make completing keys in pugs even worse than it is now. Because there would be no penalty for removing others from their group.
Removing the deplete from the key would result in some awesome fails.
“I wanted to +3 this key, as we cannot +3 it anymore im just gonna kick everyone out and restart at the same level”
I can see right away that this sort of thing will start happening…
+18 drops the best gv rewards this season . Ofc the barrier of entry is much higher to the +17 . Nobody gonna risk that previous +18 .
Sound reasoning… For tools…
Personal skill levels distort the feeling of difficulty in each individual dungeon. Key level is also an important factor.
Unless my group minds it I would gladly take the 450 priest if he has the relevant dungeon done on a lower key level (1-2 level lower). If the key is between 15 and 18. 450 is plenty ilvl for that level of content, though for 18s they may have to play specific mechanics safe.
I am doing so because, unless the DPS of each individual player is below average, the key will be finished on time, even with wipes.
But I mainly tank those keys, so I can use a pace that increases our chances of timing a key.
It should not be that surprising of a notion. I trust my own abilities enough to know how lenient the dungeon is, and perfect play is not required at these key levels to time them, atleast from my perspective.
Actually the 17-18 range is the hardest to get invited to because at 17 the Hero track starts and at 18 the Great Vault rewards Mythic track starts.
I personally did around +17 FALL runs this week for all my BiS items and it was very easy to get invited to because I play tank and of my high rio from last season.
But for DPS is another story. There were like 30-40 DPS in queue, so the competition is high.
And then you have that 2-3 DPS with 2.8k+ rio this season and 475+ ilvl. So if you were in the leader’s shoes, what would you do?
Invite the 455 ilvl guy with 2k rio, which is probably fine for a 17, or that 480 ilvl 3k rio DH gigachad?
When proposed with 2 options, with one purely better than the other, I doubt you’d pick the worse option because “it will be fine anyways”. Again, you’re doing a disservice to yourself, and if you are fine with it, to the rest of the group.
And I’m not talking about being nice to someone, boosting a guildie, or the likes of those, I’m talking about “Hey you can choose this huge dps who seems to know the donjon or this crap one who may or may not know it” in a pug scenario.
Anyone who picks the 2nd is either a liar, a masochist, or mother Teresa herself (and even then it’s not nice to the rest of the group).
I experience similar things, I have timed a good bit of 17’s, 18’s and 19’s already running with guildies. For me, the hardest part of M+ is getting into the key, not the key itself
As many have pointed out already, it really comes down to supply and demand. For every healer and tank, there are 50 DPS, so when you are queuing for a key, the reason they aren’t picking you is not because they see your score is too low or think you incabable (most times atleast), it is simply because another one is higher ilvl, higher rating etc. Unless you play a super meta spec or bring something unique to the dungeon, like BL, Dispel etc., or certain utility for certain affixes, they will pick whoever else signs up who either brings that, or edges you out in ilvl or rating. It’s sadly that simple
I heard that for this season, the tank and healer shortage is worse than s2 and groups seem actually happy when I join as a tank or healer.
I often seen groups with 3 dps waiting in the group finder and wonder how long they’ve been waiting.
Guess people don’t like tanking or healing.
Look who the troll is on the forums now…
Have you become what you profess to hate?
How exactly am I trolling? I replied to your statement. Players and their characters are not tools is my point in case you didn’t get it the first time.
But by your copious reply I understand you don’t want to get it… This is why you call me a troll despite the fact my counterargument, makes perfect sense and I didn’t insult you in any way.
So I will stop there and never reply to you ever again. Bye.
Would you take a bad dps over a good one?
If the person, was more fun and was trying their best regardless? Hell yeah, I actually do this every day.
Especially if the person had all they needed to complete the PvE content I signed up for and the only issue was that they don’t play the meta spec or something.
I actually sometimes regret not being able to tank/heal because I would be able to help my in-game friends more efficiently since there is a tank/heal shortage. But for better or worse I love my character.
Then again, I am one of the people who don’t mind wiping 40 times on the same boss and I am here for the ride rather than the achievement and the loot. Vertical profession to me is a means to do content, not the end goal.
And I understand that’s just me. I am merely offering a different point of view which boils down to that:
Class/character fantasy expression and social interactions > efficiency, loot and achievements.
You don’t have to enjoy the game like I do of course. And I totally get that doing a +17 and or a +25 requires a higher degree of efficiency, which is why I don’t touch stones like these.
The topic is about being declined in a pug environment, you can’t know the behavior of the person.
The only thing you know is their class, ilvl, and rating.
With these factors, would you purposefully the worst option?
Isn’t that the whole point of the argument though? In a lfg setting we don’t know anything about the person signing up, except the stats the game shows us. Other than that, it’s an anonymous list of names.
In that scenario, people take the person that seems the most qualified for the key and/or brings something useful to the group. I don’t think there’s anything more to it.
Just a personal anecdote: when I started doing m+ in shadowlands, I did just invite the first 4 people signing up. I still reached my goals, but it was a constant struggle of untimed keys, leavers and just generally an unpleasant experience as a healer.
At some point my guildies got tired of me complaining, and told me it was my own fault for not inviting more qualified people. Doing keys got so much easier, it wasn’t even comparable.
Nowadays I still just invite the first four players signing up, if it’s a key I don’t care about. If it’s for rating, I will invite the best players I can find. Why would I make life harder on myself, if it isn’t necessary?
It really never had anything more to it, people would rather just sit and cry on the forums rather than think for 2 minutes, or make their own group and instantly understand.
Love that chart. Buff RShaman by a tad. Nerf DPriest by a tad and we would have one of the most balanced healer metas ever.
Yes, even in the rare case where I use my own stone to PUG and I make my own group, I just accept whoever applies first. And because most of the time we are 3 DDs waiting for a tank or a healer I have the opportunity to talk and get to know these people before the group is full. Why? Exactly because I know only their class, ilvl and rating, I am not judging anyone based solely on those factors.
Then again, because I do at best +14 stones (and very rarely) I have the luxury to not care about optimization so much.
Read above about that. It’s essentially for that reason alone that I don’t judge people based on LFG information. The data is limited and unreliable.
Here is where the difference in taste comes in. If i feel like my “life is hard” because of a game at any point I stop playing. My personal philosophy is that a game should be fun throughout the whole process of failing, winning, grinding and getting reward (be it loot or whatever).
So I enjoy the game as a complete experience even when I am wiping at the same Normal Raid boss 40 times in 3 hours (it happened many a times during S1 with my guild).
As I have already explained, I don’t mind even if I fail or time a key. If at the end of failing a key I feel terrible or bad enough to complain then that means this content or the game itself is not for me.
Again, that’s just my preference and I don’t expect everyone here to entertain themselves as I do. Some people just want that dopamine they get when they acquire loot and/or finish a challenge successfully. So whatever comes in the way of that is bad and should be avoided/removed in their opinion. Nothing bad with that. People are just being people, that’s all there is to it.
its not worse its just gear got move higher then ever before. so in last tiers someone who was in full m+ gear could instantly jump into 15-16s just fine. now they are like 13 itlv behind - so they are there they are just gearing up .
not everyone has determination to run 40-50 dungeons a week on 1 char just to gear it up especialy that they have 6 months to maximze gear to 490.
for most people 8 dungeons per week is a lot.
so tanks are there they are just like 450 itlv and around 1-1.5k score.
they will get there in couple of weeks.