I’ll move once Sylvie dies.
Which means never 
U mean when she reaches 45% hp right? 
Oh they know, they are seeing more and more blue go red constnatly …
Who wants to stay blue except from loyalty? Red does everything better, red is the centre, red gets teh cool things, Red has the better guilds, more activity and population - and besides you can get all the best of blue on the red. The better side of high elves is red, the best side of the night elves is red - so if you didn’t l ike the other horde aesthetics, well you not only have it on red, but better.
there is nothing to attract you to the alliance over the horde… and if they are unwilling to fix that, it will never change.
1 Like
Yes but they must also know that if 2 out of 4 players swapping factions other 2 either leaving or taking breaks. With such strategy they won’t survive longterm or shrink to equals as other mmorpgs like Final Fantasy. They will be on par with other games.
Thinking about it, the game has been going down in popularity within increasing faction imbalance. If you make a part of playerbase upset they will spread negativity and take their revenge by damaging your profits. I brought dozens of people to this game in the past for example I don’t do that anymore why would I try to bring them more customers nowadays.
As long as this faction problem persists the game will keep going down. I won’t bring new players, you won’t or others won’t bring new players and we are gonna keep spreading negativity everywhere, rightfully.
They used this argument to tell blizzard the alliance shouldn’t get high elves.
Ultimately, a good developer wouldn’t give the other side reason to be upset… how long, when the alliance as the majority , did they give the horde better , didn’t see anyone quitting… why? Becasue they also gave the alliance stuff that was good enough, just not as good, plus they also did good raids, cool themes, dungeons which everyone can partake off… Even beautiful Silvermoon, and Quel’dannis, while horde, they allowed everyone to play a part in.
Draenei weren’t as good as blood elves - they wanted the horde ot shine more, and they did, but Draenei were good enough… if they had made Draenei like Broken, then alliance would have been upset.
So, hell you make the alliance more attractive, you make the night elves, void elves, draenei more attractive to win over horde fans, however you don’t do nothing for the horde… improve the horde too, improve the orcs, improve the goblins, give them some cool new races.
I did a new allied race topic for both horde and alliance.
imo, both the alliance and horde here have cool races, but the alliance ones I feel are cooler. the horde would not be angry with these at all, but i feel the alliance will be more appealing.
So really, it’s not doing nothing for the horde, it’s doing better for the alliance. Tha’ts exactly what happened when it was in the reverse. You afterall want both pleayres to have reason to play and enjoy no matter where they go, but when you want more to go to one side, , for a while you make that side more attractive.
It really is simple… and yet they are completley avoiding doing this… now that is ruinous bias. and ofc the game will fail.
To be fair, the classic community need a slap on the bottom for that one. They ruined things for everyone else. How? Because Blizzard said “You think you want it, but you don’t” “No, We really do! Exactly as it was, no Changes! That’s all we want!”
“OK, Here you go”
“Not like that!”
“What do you mean, you wanted Classic, we gave you Vanilla, that is what you said you wanted?” “But everything’s a mess” “Yep, you said you wanted that.” “We -Obviously- meant with some QoL changes like the bugs taking out” “So you didn’t want the Old School Vanilla experience then?” “Well, yes, just a bit…better” “Oh, and BG queues suck” “Yeah, they did back then too, that’s why we streamlined it” “Oh, and when are you releasing Classic TBC?” “Oh, you really don’t want that…” “no, We do, no Changes, that’s all we want” “OK then…” “Not like that!” “Whaaat? You asked for the original TBC experience?” “Yeah, but obviously a bit better than it was back then.”
I think the greatest howler I saw was someone going “As a grown adult of 21 years old, I remember Vanilla, I want that game back, as it was.”
I was like “awww, bless, that’s cute…You would have been 4 years old. are you telling us you understood all the nuances of game design before you learned to do your own shoelaces and dress yourself without assistance? That’s real cute kid…”
They ruined it for everyone else, because next time Blizz come out with that line “You think you do, but you don’t” The community won’t have a leg to stand on because of the Classic fans. Because they proved Blizzard -Right-. (I feel dirty just typing that line).
They aren’t. People just repeat that statement that they -are- and sooner or later people start believing it. I don’t blame the Alliance only fanbase for it, it’s human nature. Ever seen one of those threads where people go “Horde wanted Nightborne, and boom! They got Nightborne.”
Never happened. There was not a single thread on this forum, where the Horde fanbase asked for Nightborne. Everyone assumed they would either go Alliance (Wasted potential) or stay Neutral. No one. No one, asked for Nightborne on Horde side. It was a complete surprise to everyone. But you have people here insisting that there was a massive clamour on Horde to get them, whilst forgetting that some wily old foxes like myself have been around since Vanilla, when I was 30, so able to tie my own shoelaces and dress myself, unlike the 21 year old Vanilla fan… Some of us -remember- that time, and know that what is being said is absolute horsetwaddle. You give it another year or two of people insisting Horde fans were clamouring for Nightborne, and it will pass into ‘canon’ on these forums. Despite it never actually happening.
I like to call it the ‘Casablanca effect’. Everyone remembers the famous line from the film “Play it again Sam” Even people who have watched it, 90% or so will swear they remember that line, towards the end.
It never happened. It’s a collective myth. The closest dialogue you get in the film is “You know the song, Sam” “i’m sure I don’t” “You do, if she can stand it, then so can I, Play it.”
Everyone is very keen to say X faction asked for Y, after the event, despite it never actually happening that way. Sudden Hotfixes because Horde players asked for them simply never happened, not suddenly, certainly not suddenly, but because it doesn’t suit the narrative of a ‘Pet Faction’ people like to spread that myth, to sound even more hard done by, without realising some of us ‘Old Timers’ actually remember what happened.
Not sure what those percentages prove about the number of Dev’s who favour Horde, which is what my statement about Percentiles was regarding. Besides, those aren’t accurate figures. But yeah, I wasn’t talking about Mythics. You can’t use that as an accurate barometer of faction balance in the slightest, unless you are one of those weirdo’s who think that the entire game is based on Mythics.
Then why play an mmoRPG? I mean that is the bread and butter of single player, and multiplayer RPG’s?
Blood elves were an additional race, not necessarily a gameplay element. They’ve already given the Alliance better racials, they’ve already made it so the Alliance has the upper hand in the story. How much -more- desirable do they have to make it, to play Alliance? All that is left, is outright giving the Alliance permanent bonuses over Horde. The instant they do that, is the death of the Alliance as a Faction. And that’s not cool, I’m fond of my Draenei, my humans, my Gnome, my Night Elf. I don’t want to feel like a charity case for playing them.
I’d say it is foolish, and counterproductive, but the thing is, fans of -Both- Factions say that. You see what I mean about Self Sabotage? if you have even Alliance fanbase saying “you can’t play on alliance, you need to go Horde for that” Then what on earth do they expect?
I completely agree, now if we could get the doomsayers on -BOTH- factions to stop doing that, it would be a good start, because then people might actually make a critical analysis for themselves and go “Actually, these guys have the better racials…”
As I say, you’d be surprised. I personally don’t, but I know a huge majority that do.
Because people keep telling them to go Horde if they want ‘Serious’ game (Which is an oxymoron, if it is ‘serious’ it is no longer a ‘game’ ), including Alliance fans.
They are though…that’s the thing, they are. And as I say, how -much- of a difference does it have to be before it becomes blatant?
I’m sorry, are you saying Horde racials have not been nerfed? Mana Tap was sick, so got nerfed into Arcane Torrent, that got complained about, so Arcane Torrent got nerfed into what it is now, which is…‘meh’ kinda good, but much more circumstance based. I sometimes forget I even have it on Brigante, so pointless is it in most situations. Pretty much every Horde racial has been nerfed at some point. Apart from Nightborne. Because their racials are hot garbage anyway, you can’t exactly nerf something that is 1/10 in terms of usefulness. Mag’har ones are a bit rubbish as well. “You can ride faster! Except when riding faster would actually be useful, then you can’t”
I think it would be righteous scorn, rather than ‘riot’. any conversation an Alliance fan starts about bias could just instantly be slammed down. Which helps no one.
The problem there, was that they introduced it by zone, rather than WM shard. RP Realms (There are more classified that way than you would think) were lumped in with normal realms, so we ended up with a perpetual system, because it was organised by zone, that the faction that outnumbered the other 70/30 was getting a 30% bonus, whereas the outnumbered faction was getting 10%. That is where the complaints came from. They’re different WM shards. If on general realms, Horde outnumbered Alliance, sure, the alliance should have the 30%, the Horde 10%, All fine and groovy. However because it was by -zone- you had a situation where Alliance outnumbered Horde more than 2:1 and were -Still- getting the 30% bonus.
It was the bad implementation, not the idea itself, that caused the backlash.
Yeah, and ‘Domino effect’ was a strong part of US foreign policy at that time, true.
Yup. That was pretty much my point. The USA going “Where did they get the money to do all this?” “Hmm, I’m pretty sure somewhere in the Pentagon you have all the receipts?”
Ehh, Wars by Proxy, no more or less bloody than outright war, just easier to encourage the locals to fight for your ideals.
Sad but true.
There were a variety of reasons, some of which can be seen on the High Elf Threads. "Sure, but we want Paladins, and Quel’thalas, and Silvermoon, the Blood Elves can go and live on Outlands where (and I hilariously quote) “They belong”…
I wouldn’t class Silvermoon and Quel’thalas, or Quel’danas for that matter, as beautiful, they -look- pretty, they are also TBC era graphics, as opposed to the other cities.
They’re not even on the Azeroth map, but are on the TBC map…
Orc and troll racials are still dope for pvp. Hardiness+2 min trinket = OP
2 Likes
Kalibas once told me their could be great huge Blood Elf colonies in Hellfire Pennisula
Is it? I have no idea if you’ve ever played DH at high level, but I do, and I can tell you one thing about playing an ‘inferior’ night elf. When I Hunt into the middle of a big pack at the start of a pull, during Korayn’s First Strike, before the tank has solid aggro, you can bet I have my finger hovering over that shadowmeld key. An AOE dispel isn’t going to keep me alive if I try that on my blood elf.
Is that all aesthetics is to you? The races?
You seem to be forgetting the zones, the capital cities, the smaller towns and villages dotted around the zones. Almost everything alliance controlled is prettier than the horde equivalent. Stormwind vs Orgrimmar? It seems absurd even to compare them. Elwynn vs Durotar? Would you rather start your journey in a green forest or a barren desert? The majority of horde controlled areas are ugly (often because the horde has trashed them).
And going back to races, I haven’t even bothered unlocking any of the horde allied races because I have no intention of playing them. As I already said, I’d 100x rather be on a night elf DH than the blood elf alternative, and night elves look better too. Alliance has draenei (including lightforged - there is no more perfect race for a paladin than lightforged draenei), dwarfs and humans. All of those are, in my opinion, better to look at than orcs, tauren or trolls. (I do actually like the troll druid forms, but I hate the way trolls move.)
For me, alliance is the more attractive faction in every way but one - the limited access to high level pve. If I ever switched to horde main, it would be because all my alliance friends had stopped playing or switched themselves, and even then I would do it reluctantly. If I’m going to sit in front of a screen ‘looking at WoW’, I want to find what I’m looking at aesthetically pleasing. There’s very little about horde that ticks that box for me.
Iw as talking more in assests… the kaldorei have no city, just ruins and veastation. The horde night elves at least have a beautiful in tact night elven city to call home shoiwing the best of the kaldorei civilziation. and all the cool tingsa bout that side.
Were is the one for the blue night elves? Their best spellcasters are hanging out neutral, we see nothign of theh best highborne arcanists of the night elven civilization (the shen’dralar) becuase like Tyrande for most of wow, they’re doing nothing - but then if they could develop Tyrande, they could develop them
We saw only one feral druid ever be ferociouis or badass, and he got killed in Val’sharah, who are neutral druidic faction anyway, so all their badass ness doesn’t count.
Farondis was powerful, noble, responsible with magic and talented, even the ruins of the crumbling palace look lik they would be exquisitely beautiful if put in pristine condition after seeing the Cathedral of Eternal night inside and Suramar art work that shows you waht night elvven buildings and colums look like when they’re done up and not in ruins… yet the Farondis like forgotten, trapped as ghosts instead of revived, the land empty
Forests are in ruin and devastation (did you fly over Ashenvale in Cata? Vals’harah has a nice half then it’s all nightmare)
Cities all in ruins and devastation
Temples all in ruins and devastation
Flip over to void/high elves - exiled, homeless, blood elves? Beautiful Silvermoon, cool Eversong woods, , Eversong Forest might be still plagued becasue of lack of update, but it’s a lot better than tents in Telogrus rift, or homeless / tarrying in either Stormwind or Dalaran.
Draenei have gorgeous auchindouin and Shtattrath sitting in a parallel univers the alliance faction have no control or claim over, meanwhile they sit in a very outdated Exodar ship, in an Azuremyst zone that is mostly just tents and homes from escape pods.
But yeh, they’ll destroy Teldrassil and night elven homes, to give humans Lordaeron and keep kaldorei civilization only with the horde night elves.
And they will wonder why more people simply prefer the horde, - Horde does cities better, does arcane and magic better, does civilization and pretty better, does savage and brutal better, does explosives and dangerous better… i mean. Alliance is just for flavour alternatives, horde is where the cream of the crop is
Does it surprise you why people will keep going horde, why you’d have horde communities largely/only, and therefore more guilds, more raids, more LFG groups, more m+ … teh alliance just simply pales in comparison
Look at Boralus versus Dazar’alor… sure Boralus was a cool city, loved the realism and concept crafting, but Dazar’alor was the mouth dropping fantasy master piece. Reminded me of Blood elves and Draenei, i mean the spaceship Exodar was cool - the futuristic vibe and design feel, but it was just a tip top, with a Cavenous inside, Silvermoon was the jaw dropping city.
You end up going to Tempest KEepBotantica etc, do tehse ships ever go to Azeroth no? do they build a WoD auchindouin on azeroth fro the playable draenei ? no. But we all go to the Sunwell plateau too, and tha’ts firmly in the hands of the blood elves.
I’m just saying, I know waht side looks and feels more attractive. And it’s been the case every expansion since. THe one expansion legion, where it looked liek blue would get the best things, nooo, the blue night elven sub-race end up going red, so no. They don’t.
There is a reason why the horde is a lot more popular, and until they can start putting cool things in the alliance, and making it more attractive to horde players, I’m sorry, no one is going to shift, and it’s going tot ake more than just giving blood elf skin tones to void elves, you need to build up the void elves, give them stuff, make them look good, interesting, cool… same with Night elves, same with Daraenei, same with Dwarves… everything needs to improve, everything needs tob e really cool.
Source needed
Queen Azshara’s most revered arcanist - and the ones who did her developed her top projects.
For me, this puts them as the best ones in the realm… the Queen gathers them, puts them far away to work on the best and greatest wonders for her, so she takes the credit and the people adore her. She may not have done the actual development herself, but she had the brains to put the right people in charage, find them and set them up to devliver the best… that’s also worth credit.
It is likely she passed the work off as her own though.
Such an accolade isn’t used of any other group. Reading a lot into a statement, but it’s what the lore calls them. And it’s kinda cool they survived, the best of them too, and have joined the night elves… if only they would show us what they are capable of doing in spectacular time.
Ah well, they eventually showed Tyrande as cool after over a decade of doing nothing (except what we read about her in the books) so there is hope. We might see some cool Moon Priestess and Highborne stuff that would be very a mazing and attractive coming from the kaldorei soon.
You know what else was revered as well.
Vashj’ir the City. No other city is put as “revered.”
So good, she forgot to call them when Xavius wanted to open up a huge portal.
Not official lore.
wow team is in pretty dire sheit right now, i doubt they have the will, resources or even the capabilities to solve the faction balance, they’ll probably just put some sort of bandaid on it (mercenary style) making it just less noticeable, as one of their faction will keep slowly dying.
to be able to fix it they would need to stop giving the alliance the second class citizen treatment, but the devs seem pathologically incapable of it.
2 Likes
Then that’s what it is. Someone has to be the most revered group - no point being annnoyed or against it because it’s the Shen’dralar, it’s what they are.
And although we haven’t managed to see true wonder works from them in game, there story does allude to them being remarkable.
- They and Suramar are the only cities attacked by the Legion that actually succssfully defended… and unlike Suramar, they saved their whole city.
- They were able to not only summon an arcane demon entity through their magical knoweldge, but also trap it and siphon it, successfully without any obiovus taint
- They successfully use arcane liberally without drawing the Legion back to Azeroth from teh twisting Nether - the very fear that caused the northern group to ban practice and eventually expel darth’remar 3,000 years later for suggesting it could be done, they pull it off straight away
- They are the only night elven group to overcome both addiction and corruption by themselves. the northern group had draconic and nature magic help from the emerald dream, the Nightborne had the Arcan’dor to do it, and the Thalassian elves had a dying naaru’s sacrifice to infuse it with divine energy to help them… These guys did it by themselves.
they are doing feats few or none of their elven kin can match, doing things thousadns of years before them - and this is just some of what you can glean.
THis is no ordinary group of magicians or arcanists. The greatest wonders aof the kaldorei empire, attributed to the best sorceress in the realm, teh Queen are developed by these…
It’s nice that blizzard made some of hte best kaldorei civilziation magical groups survive.
- Teh shen’drlar as the best arcanists, magical engineers and creators
- The Farondis as the best magical researchers and theoriests
- The Elisande higihborne were the best at magical artifacts and devices
- The sunstrider were palace Highborne and tehb est at leadership and likely portalling.
ofc there would be many other areas , ofc
1 Like
The story eludes to none of this.
Zin-Azshari Highborne were the ones that Azshara truly held close to her. She wouldn’t even come out to the night elves, as time went on - her time was just for her Highborne of Zin-Azshari.
Headcanon.
Basically, now we’re in the realms of “The Shen’dralar taught Azshara.”
Hey Brigante - Shen’dralar are the bestest of the best, because they even now taught Azshara. Even though Blizzard have never stated this.
I mean, because Zin-Azshari Highborne were the best, it was the Blood Elf ancestors that ACTUALLY taught Azshara. It’s thanks to the Blood Elves, the night elves even had Azshara.
so good, that again - Azshara never contacted them.
Alas, we are all suspecting this.
But of all of these, it is the “will” i don’t think they have. You need the passion from love for your work to produce the best stuff. Terrible team spirit/moral, slave driving, abuse (both of females and men who are often blamed for everything whether they are guilty or not), can be a terrible atmosphwere and soul sapping environment to work in that will never produce great work.
not the levels of love we saw in TBC or in Legion anyway… that takes loving your project… alas, it is what I am thinking is no longer there.
You don’t see the level of detail, love, and extra mile blizzard use to be famous for. WE saw it Legion, and thought, they’re back ! amazing expansion, but quality kept dropping after.
See Final Fantasy, they apologised for a sub-par project than went all out on a remake. I mean all out. that till theis day, not only are they standing, but drawing subs from Wow itself… most players had no idea it was so good a game… they never tried it, it didn’t have the press and word of mouth, it took Asmogold to show them, and now they see, but it’s been there.
Blizzard have had all the advantages, but they also use to do great work. Their next expansion needs to pull out all the stops, because a failure and it would be so hard to recover that rep.
And i don’t think they have the will to do it. I mean they won’t even fix the alliance.
1 Like
Really?
Eldre’thalas and Suramar ARE the only two cities to survive
They did summon an arcane demonic entity themselves
They trapped it and succsesfuly siphoned it to power thier city
They enver got caught, never drew back the burning legion through their magic, so obviously were not only fully aware of the need to hide magical casting from the twisting nether, but were successful at it,
All this under the watchful eye of their northern cousins, wild gods and dragons - remember the night elve sin the north were all magic users themselves, many of them highborne and moonguard who had agreed to put up this ban to protect Azeroth and were mostly working as druids suppressing magic across the continent.
They overcome their addiction and corruption themselves, Chronicles tells us this.
Do tell me how all this information, directly from the lore, some how is not eluded too?
While this is believable, it is never stated. It’s not to say the zin’Azsahri lot weren’t good. Azshara and second in command Xavius were there, but in an empire, sometimes the best are put further way so the leader can shine brighter, or put to work to do more.
Also Suramar’s Nar’thalas acadmey was the world renowned magical research centre… but then it is leader’s not fighters or researchers that are often at the capital. Anyway, Suramar wasn’t far from Zin’Azshari, and in Azsuna you are told Faronar is the remains of the main road that led into Zin’Azsahri… the legion have destroyed all the night elf ruins there and it is fel pocked now. - it would have been more densely populated
And forgotten about when the time actually comes.
And we all know it was Thalassian ancestors who taught the Queen. The sources are there. You just need to find them
All Elves overcame a form of corruption. Shen’dralar aren’t special, in that regard.
It was actually. It’s stated that Azsuna was far from Zin-Azshari, hence why Farondis was free from the corruption of the Legion.
Brigante is right - your in desperation because you want night elves to be the only race in-game with a straight up “I win” button at all times. They are not the bestest of the best - you need to get over that fact.
It’s clear they aren’t, since they not only lost 1 city home, but they lost 2.