Theoretically means what is achievable only in theory, and practically mean what is achievable in both practice and theory. Practically doesn’t mean that you have to be able to do it right now just that is achievable at some point.
My body is fully capable of running 5 miles, even if I’m not currently doing that. That means it practically possible.
So as I was saying:
But there’s no need for us to nitpick. We both agree that the game has never been perfectly balanced, and neither of us believe it ever will be.
That would be a fair comparison, if only you choosing not to utilize this increased skill ceiling made you worse than you are today. It doesn’t, but of course it makes you worse compared with the healers that do play at a higher difficulty.
I’m just going to drop this because I can’t be arsed to dive deeply enough into participation metrics unless someone presents me to it. I’ll give it to you and take your word for it, if you want me to wholeheartedly discuss this please provide me with your references for this so I can inspect it for myself.
This change wouldn’t affect the noobs one bit, as nothing gets harder for them since they still don’t utilize their entire toolkit anyway. The keyboard drooler that only press soothing mists will still be able to do that whilst achieving the exact same results, but the players utilizing their entire toolkit will venture farther than they previously did.
With that said sure, this change only favors the good healers. It doesn’t harm the bad healers though.
If we turn it the other way around we could, say, nerf all dungeons below +5. That favors all the bad healers, but it doesn’t do anything for the good healers as they play above that difficulty. Does that change say “screw the
pros”, or does it just toss a piece of bread to the noobs?
If you said that the suggested will create a greater chasm/disparity between good and bad healers then yeah, I’d definitely agree about that. Is that necessarily a bad thing though? In that case why?
The problem with this is that different sets of dmg abilities create different dmg profiles so in order to equalize healers’ DPS output, they would need to get the same dmg abilities, it’s not just about “tweaking” a number here and there.
For example, Holy Priest vs Resto Shaman:
Hpriest has:
Holy Fire
Burning Vehemence
Holy Nova
Shadow Word: Pain
Rsham has:
Flame Shock
Lava Burst
Acid Rain
Chain Lightning
Both specs put their dmg out in a fundamentally different way and trying to equalize their damage output while not giving them the same abilities would be just as difficult as trying to equalize the damage output of Shadow Priests and Arms Warriors.
Just like every DPS, every healer has a different dmg kit that shines in different situations. However, since a healer’s job is to heal, their overall dmg output, let alone their dmg profile, should not be a significant factor unless they’re doing MDI.
I have probably been a bit too vague earlier in the thread when I’ve said this.
I don’t expect it to only need some number tweaks to make this work, I think it also needs a minor rework of the specs. It’s not a huge task, but it will indeed take at least a little bit of work.
I don’t know how you define significant. I suggest 50% when playing purely for damage, pretty much what a tank does (not prot paladin since we all agree they’re considerably stronger than other tanks in terms of dps).
If 50% is significant to you, does that also imply that you think tanks overall damage should be lower since their job is to tank?
Only difference is, you’re comparing oranges to apples. Tanks generate threat by using their damaging abilities. Not all healers generate healing off of dps.
We already have some healers doing dps higher than others, MW and disc to give two.
Someone in the thread already suggested changing how tank threat works.
If you log in tomorrow and see a new talent node that you opt to spend one point in that increasea your dps, how on earth will you suddenly not be able to complete the dungeons that you’re able to complete today? Nothing else will have changed. It’s a buff if you use it, and changes nothing if you don’t.
How can I ruin my own experience by being allowed to deal more damage during downtime, if what I’m asking for is precisely that, to be able to deal more damage during downtime? I’ll still fulfill any new expectations that might come due to DPS and tanks looking for free carries, so not even that would be a consequence to me personally.
No. You will be expected to use it and flamed to kingdom come if you don’t use it (this isnt up for debate due to this games history). People will also once again expect healers to “pump” everywhere and this was not well received by healers at all. Even to this day you have healers that refuse to dps and just want to heal.
Also healers already deal more than enough damage based on the data we have. They won’t receive an additional buff in that regard. At best the lowest dps healers will be brought in line with the bigger dps healers like fistweavers.
MW has rising sun kick. And lava burst in RShaman buffs Healing Surge by 30% stacking 2 times (with MotE talent).
So it is the same mechanic (a DPS spell that somehow buffs a Healing Spell) with 2 different ways of acheiving that. You explained how a MW does it. I explained how a RShaman does it.
And yet. It still feels unique. Its not the same to press RSK on CD to buff the renewing mists as you say, than to hold on a couple of secconds on the Lava Surge proc to buff Healing Surge so you can cast it on the tank after a tank-buster.
We just pull out 2 random abilities from 2 different specs and say “yes they both do damage so they are the same mechanic”. Completely pull them out of the context what it actually does and with knowing other abilities the specs have.
So? Turning damage to healing dosent neceserelly mean it has to be the main button you press.
Normalization is not about turning Lava Burst into something you spam like Riptide, just because MW monks have RSK.
Its grabbing a super general “mechanic” (dps to hps) and making a unique expression of that mechanic for each spec. Which could mean “main healing button” or not main healing button.
Shamans never were about turning spells into healing. It used to be about weaving DPS spells to get some benefit (modifiers) to your healing spells. That is what it used to be. Which is radically different than what MW monks do. But its the same “concept” of DPS to HPS.
So what spell is tiger palm, or black out kick or crackling jade lightning or spinning crane kick of the resto shaman? When we say RSK = Lava burst?
They all do damage that turns into healing.
Choosing RSK = lava burst is just grabbing some random abilities and say “yeah the do damage and somehow are needed for healing more”. Monk has at least 5 more abilities which do that.
I thought it was perfectly clear that what I meant was that it changes nothing about how you play your class, or the outcome of the dungeon, if you choose not to utilize the option.
Of course community perception changes, that changes with every implemented change in the game.
You say this, but then follows up with this:
Which is an immediate contradiction of your statement, obviously all healers don’t do enough dps if they deserve buffs to be brought in line with the better performing ones.
But I’d be overjoyed if blizzard were to do even that, it allows people like me to enjoy other healers than monks much more than I currently do.
It was stated as an example of the already existent normalization between healers that you mistake for homogenization. Healers aren’t perfectly normalized as of now. They probably won’t be later either, but it would be drastically easier to balance them if they ever were to become that.
It changes the outcome of the dungeon because people expect healers to actually pull decent DPS numbers with such a change. Dungeons will also be balanced around healers dealing a quite hefty amount of damage. Healers will also get flamed if they don’t pull enough DPS as has happened in the past.
Its not a contradiction. I said healers deal more than enough damage with the ceiling being mistweavers. The ceiling wont be increased and at best some strugglers are getting closer to the ceiling.
Mistweavers deal way more than enough damage alone. So no there is no “all”.
Healers arent DPS. End of story. When Blizzard forced healers to start dpsing it was met with disgust by A LOT and to this day we still have people, as stated, that hate this aspect of healers.
If you want less downtime then maybe Blizzard should add more incoming damage so you are busy with healing the entire time (which will also backfire because healers are already fed up with people standing in everything humanly possible as well as not popping defensives).
I wish you had led with this. This means you agree almost entirely with my suggestion as MW currently does roughly 45% the dps of an equally skilled middle of the pack DPS, when optimizing fully for damage. You’ve just ignored every example and piece of math that I provided but hey, I’m glad we see eye to eye.
Yeah I’ve stated this to be an option too, but also admitted that it would cause an uproar amongst healers.