You dont need a 1-to-1 equivalency to make normalization work.
I have always been an advocate of weaving DPS with Shamans. So instead of transforming DPS into Healing like a MW does, you work with modifiers.
If I had a magic wand I would add to RShaman the following mechanic:
Same mechanic. Different execution, different spells.
I mean, resto shaman has already shown in the past it can have ways of doing damage, like vesper totem + earthquake leggo for rocky. And it was great fun. I am for sure not against that.
I am against suggestions of making abilities more similar, which was exactly what was said, and then RSK = Lava burst.
When Resto had ways to do DPS they were ways that did not compromise HPS. The elemental in SL was just an NPC that did passive DPS. And Vesper Totem healed AND DPSed at the same time. Plus you casted a Chain Heal every time you droped it.
It is something that unfortunately we dont have in TWW. ALL our DPS comes at a cost of decreased performance. Even Acid Rain in a way because (A) it costs a talent point, and (B) sometimes you want HR to heal instead of DD. Placing it all the time under the tank is a HPS loss.
So most of the DPS a shaman does right now is at a cost of a healing spell. So you sacrifice HPS for DPS. Something MW and DPriest do not. And that is what needs to be normalized. In my opinion.
And frankly speaking, I feel passive DPS is just boring as a healer. So more active forms add to that optional “skill depth” I mentioned before.
I think it’s because they don’t want to add additional pressure to the healer for getting crap for now doing much dps also. We have plenty to deal with. But regardless I still try and pump as much as I can out there.
sir excuse me, its called healer not damage
Well a mistweaver is also just healing and then gets passively their damage.
When you just maximize your dps and hope somehow your group stays alive then you arent getting far.
Ancient Teachings says otherwise. Just to name 1 spell. Shamans dont have that equivalent. So Shamans get less than a MW does.
Let me put an example of what I mean:
Then some ST cast happens on 1 of your party members that chunks 75% of his HP. If you risked doing DPS with a shaman, that 1 person is dead. With a MW you risked nothing.
See where im going? Its not that Shamans dont do DPS. In fact, I would argue that shaman have the potential right now to top DPS meters of Healers if they wanted to. But simply put, we risk too much by doing so.
And its that risk that I dont like.
When it is single target both don’t do crap.
Spin to win is more effective than from 7/8 targets. So you choose the buttons that heal the group. Not what is doing the most damage.
This is of course all besides the point that currently indeed mistweaver is doing more damage than shaman. Shamans (and other healers) damage abilities can be tuned a bit to get more in line. I never said i do not want that.
Fine. Chose some other talent/skill that does ST heals/DPS. My point still stands.
It is just way too simple stated. Mistweaver is not only healing with damage. Shielun AOE healing cooldown is also a cast. Or vivify. Or envelop mist. Or setting out constantly renew mist hots. Or when you need to spam your tank soothing mist channelings.
We can drop a healing rain on the ground for forever that does passively damage.
The current mistweaver damage is coming from the hero talent and crackling.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RHC4BaXgnbq9hyWz?fight=4&type=damage-done&source=8
Ugly take, but i think healers should focus only on healing.
Trowing a generic dot on a mob if possibile is fine, but i dont think that pve content should be designed with healers having to do damage too. M
Just my opinion.
Lets be honest here. In the end, we are talking about healer DPS.
Which is totally irrelevant on the grand scheme of things. So whatever DPS MW do, its still 20% to 30% of what a real DD would do. Irrelevant.
The advantage MW has is that it adds an extra mechanic that adds depth to the class. That is what it does. But MW is still a healer, not a DPS and that is why you still hard cast heals.
And I am not denying that. Or against that.
All I am saying is that the DPS to Healing mechanic MW has is something that other classes dont have. Not risk free like MW and DPriest do atleast.
I agree with Uda. MW DPS is around 400-600k; the better players can go higher with the Master of Harmony hero tree. But in truth this is the exception rather than the rule; my DPS is around 200-400k total, but I am not that DPS-focused. And most DPS are in the billions. You can mistweave or fistweave, or, as I do, a bit of both; I try not to fall into the “must play” trap.
Great, we want the same things then.
A suggestion of making classes more equal was made, and then a comparison between elemental shamans having a main damaging ability and monk having another main damaging ability was made to showcase how both specs have similar functions whilst still maintaining their unique style.
Seconded.
Also seconded.
This tired old argument again…
Alright, so we better remove damage from healers so they’ll be pure healers then. To keep things fair we also remove damage and healing from tanks, they’re be purely tanky and solely have defensives. Threat can be dealt with differently. DPS will lose all their defensives and self healing, it’s the healers job to heal.
It’s a lazy, bad, and stupid argument.
Pretty much yeah, sure they have enveleoping mists, jadefire teachings, and renewing mists to maintain for healing, but it wouldn’t hurt to slighty redesign them to make more dps a more active play instead of being a side effect of healing. Although I think blizzard has done a pretty spectacular job with mistweavers, they can of course be even better designed.
I must’ve misunderstood this bit then, I assumed you were against the different capabilities of healers dps as that was what you were responding to with this. I’m glad we agree that healers should have an equal performance (even if you don’t think that healers dps performance should be 50% of an equally performing DPS).
You’re entitled to your opinion, although I definitely don’t share it.
As previously stated, if we were to implement the idea that healer should only heal, we should also keep things fair by:
Although one part of me wish they went with this just for a week to see the rage seething from all the people that gets to experience this nightmare.
This guy gets it.
This guy too.
See, this is the thing you’re missing, mate: healer DPS only matters in very high keys. Changing it now throws the balance off. Yes, you can change the balance to fit your style, but you have to change PvP and raids as well as M+; and as you no doubt realise, not everyone wants to be this big giga chad DPS running around healing.
The long and short of it is, it won’t work. You can’t just add in more DPS and tell yourself it’s going to be fine, just like you can’t add more healing to tanks and threat to DPS. Yes, dps can off-tank if they need to; just as tanks can heal, it doesn’t mean that’s their role in the party.
Look, I get why you want to see It changed FF14 as a very similar way of healing, but their fight and style are very much different from WoW’s. Yes, WoW could become like FF14’s combat style, but it doesn’t mean for a second it should.
I had an MW do 953k in an 11. That still blows my mind. I was also tanking and never once felt like they were prio’ing damage over group safety.
That is genuinely meaningful damage, most tanks do less. I’ve actually timed 12’s with dps doing less than that.
This is where people fail tanking. A tank’s job is not only threat it’s also to manage coolldowns, do mechanics correctly and keep the boss in an optimal position. Mark of a good tank is not taking a boss/mobs for walkies. Moving dps = less dps
Each ability has a threat modifier. Tanks have larger threat modifier per point of damage. All they need to do is decrease damage but substantially increase the threat modifier.
Yeh Its crazy what some ppl can pull out dmg wise but the full quote is.
I would always like my healers doing more damage. There will always also be those that wont like when they do or if they get killed by healer out there somewhere.
Currently only disc/mw/evoker has such style that they can most easiest dish out dmg in pvp atleast and the rest have harder time sending it between healing or doing something else, so perhaps change in that would suffice for me instead just flat dmg increase.
Rdruid and rsham trying weave in dmg while watching mw spin around screen while doing half the dpsers dmg and simultaneously also heal is something to witness as spec that cannot just do quite same 
Its either make the other specs deal dmg as easily or buff their healing to go past those that can do dmg easily so its compensated with being more powerful healer. Havent tried druid on ptr but I hope the rework does something.
I know, I was making conversation