How can it ruin the social aspect of the game if there’s no social aspect to begin with
all my dungeon runs have been completely silent once the group has been formed or the occasional “…” when we wipe
Truly a thing to be preserved, i cannot believe they prefer boosters and HR reserves to stay in the game at the detriment of people that just want to have RDF
As said, the only legit point against RDF is that crossfaction groups with the likelihood to never meet again can result in less inhibitions to ninja/being toxic in general. Additionally the inability to add players you meet in dungeons as friends and keep playing with them together is also a problem.
These issues are crossrealm related though. This could be addressed by making RDF only realm wide, since most dead servers get removed either way. If RDF was crossrealm, it should at least prioritize to match players from one realm and only mix realms whenever one server lacks in player numbers in queue to open a group in a reasonable time.
TLDR: RDF fixes many problems and the only reasonable argument against RDF is connected to crossrealm, which can and should be addressed.
Are you sure? There will be constant vote kicks of underperforming specced players because the system can find another dps in a matter of seconds.
Tanks may say that they would leave the group if someone needs on item he wants (if that is not from last boss) and replacement tank might not want to go into half cleared dungeon and would leave too, except if he needs a badge, maybe.
Same as above.
It is faster than TBC for sure, but in the beginning just like you did in TBC you will need to communicate to take down dungeons and do achivements.
That’s because you do not socialise with people you are grouping with or adding them to your friend list. Sure there can be many GDKPs and HR and other mercantile groups around, but that’s because people who join such groups are either swiping or just don’t need the loot and come only for badges/daylies, because they know carries are geared and skilled just as them.
Logically if one group has most of rare items on HR and another doesn’t everyone who need something would join the latter. Except people do not want a fair distribution nor from organisers neither form their clients side. That’s why RMT exists even in dungeon groups a content trivial enough.
Only “the beginning” will not be like the beginning we remember. Built on patch 3.3.0 everything will be easy-peasy.
Just like TBCC and Classic you mean? When i say beginning i mean P1 that do not have gear from P2+
Yes that’s exactly what I mean.
Only that patch 3.3.0 is really where Classic ends. Gear does not mean much here - when it hit, I was able to roll over most anything in n00b questing greens.
PS: I know it’s confusing when I write about what “I” did back then, and you try to match ist with what I wrote some days ago. The reason is the simple, taht I had several alts that were different levels, classes etc. when Wrath, and later patch 3.3.0 hit.
People are way to romanticizing when it comes to nostalgia and often forget to look further than their subjective ideas because they’re judgements are based on emotions rather than facts.
Just like everything we know, it has it’s pro’s and it’s con’s. The true question remains if the con’s outweigh the pro’s in order to make a final call wether to implement it or not.
The reality is that if you start playing your character when the big masses are playing their character - as in: launch of an expansion - you’ll have zero to none trouble finding groups for dungeons. Everyone will run The Nexus or Utgarde Keep because of quests and items we all need at this point.
So for Wrath related content an RDF upon release is not much contributing to the social fabric which is under stress since long.
However, when Wrath launches and you’ll find yourself on an established realm (so not a Fresh realm) and you are behind on the leveling curve, you’ll most likely find no Dungeon groups. Try to spam in LFG for Deadmines or Ramparts Normal when everyone is exploring the dark secrets of Northrend.
In this situation, RDF is a meaningfull solution. People from far and wide can queue up and can be put together.
The same can be said for when Wrath is halfway the expansion. The majority of people having mains filled with Ulduar gear, and leveling alts / starting in Wrath at this point will be - without Guildies / Friends - very hard to find dungeon groups.
Currently on my server I end up spamming LFG to find groups for TBC-related content. Also on the higher populated servers LFG chat are so flooded. You type your message, blink once with your eyelids and your message is off-screen. Already pushed away by plentifull of others announcing their LFG messages or sometimes even people filling the channel with spam/talks and what not.
RDF counters this. And this has nothing much to do with not willing to put in the effort to create a group. The amount of chat lines appearing per second in LFG channel - regardless of their (un)rightfull content - is at times causing my brain to explode.
Also, mid expansion, and this was deffo the case with Classic and TBC you’ll see Tanks hiding in their raid gear and you’ll end up having a shortage of tanks for dungeon content. So hiring a tank, all of a sudden becomes a reality. This should be - hopefully - countered by Dual Spec.
Reserving items, like Pre-Raid BiS trinkets/weapons is something that was very common in the 2 servers I played on. Mirage Raceway and Nethergarde Keep. RDF, as said above is a counter to this.
In the end the conclusion is that RDF has it’s rightfull purposes if implemented wisely. A proposal could be:
In this way, the people who have a hard time levelling - because they are behind the masses - will still have ways to do dungeons and engage with their peers in social activities.
Also, RDF will not contribute to the current masses straight away and will not reward anything extra to established players.
I believe, in all honesty this combines the best of both worlds. It counters potential problems that could arise/eventually will arise when you go completely without RDF, on the other hand this system has the least amount of interference for the players who think RDF will ruin the social aspects of this game.
Thoughts?
Sometimes I think we are playing different games or you are just straight up lying. I’m leveling my prot paladin and doing lots of dungeons. My average experience is something like this:
[Player 1] Hey/Welcome/Hello
[Player 1] Mana tombs?
[Players 2-5] Hey. Ok
[Player 3] Can you summon me?
[Player 2] I’m omw to the stone who’s coming to help?
[Player 1] I’m close.
[Player 2] Mana
[Player 2] Mana
[Player 3] <Insert random 2 lines of text>
[Player 2] Mana
[Player 2] Mana
[Player 2] Mana
[Player 2] Mana
[Player 4] I hope it drops that weapon.
[Player 2] Mana
[Player 2] Mana
[Players 1-5] Ty for the run. Gl all.
This is exactly same experience I’m having with dungeon finder in retail(minus the summoning part) and this is exactly same experience I had once RDF was introduced. Nothing changes.
If you want to bring toxicity argument I can tell you that players are just as toxic. I’ve seen people kicked from groups for “low damage” quite a few times.
Prob because you started playing in P3 or something.
Just know that your memory of your personal impression of a time back 13 years ago might not be the same impression that everyone else had. Its a fact you think you had that experience, but that doesnt make it a fact that is was like that.
Everything you experienced, that you never saw people again and had more toxic people in dungeons was related to the crossrealm-fact. If it was realm wide only and you kept getting queued with the few guys on your server you have been running dungeons with for years, it would have been a different experience.
I think your Idea is reasonable. I would add that if RDF is crossrealm, it should prioritize to match players from one realm over players from “same language” realms over matching anything. This would mean that players are more likely to have a good experience and even lowpop server/low level players can have invites.
Additionally RDF shouldn ignore heroic IDs/lockouts, other than when it was introduced. This is because until patch 3.3 it wasnt intended that players were able to farm “endless” badges per week.
Do you even read what you quote? If not you should. The only reason you think dungeons are anti-social in todays TBCC is because you did not play in P1-2. Simple as that.
Umhmmmm you might be missing the point. WOTLK gearing changes made heroics easy. Players simply outgeared heroics because average player had access to badge gear.
People remember TBC heroics as being hard because majority of people never raided. They were doing heroics in their rep/quest gear/dungeon gear. A group of T5 geared players currently can chain pull heroics like we used to do at the end of WOTLK.
What changed in WOTLK is that average player had MUCH better gear than average TBC player and was able to outgear heroics by huge margin. At the beginning of WOTLK no1 was chain pulling heroics either.
Btw ICC patch heroics were harder and you couldn’t chain pull them like launch heroics because players weren’t outgearing them. They were so much harder that it wasn’t uncommon to just leave them outright if RDF dropped you into one of them.
Well I’ll just say that it’s surprising how different two players remember the same events.
Because most memories remaining are from the last year of WOTLK where you had awesome gear and the fact that you were upgrading gear in WOTLK way faster.
As I said you don’t need to look far. Even TBC heroics aren’t hard in T5/T6 gear. They can be chain pulled.
In the end WoW is numbers game. If your group number > heroic number you are having easy time.
Because I remember clearly the shift brought on from 3.3.0. It happened overnigth, not gradually. That’s what I mean. If it had been only gear, it had happened gradually, we did not all suddenly get th best gear just because a new patch dropped.
I’ll try to keep this short. But experience has shown me that most people will then jump to conclusions and I will have to make things more clear anyways. But here goes.
The RDF takes away one hurdle. The hurdle to actually talk to someone in chat, to even get into a group. Someone who never feels like doing that, will never even send the “inv pls” or anything like that. They will simply not play the game at all.
So now we have filtered the most antisocial players completely out of the game already. The remaining communities average will be more social.
Now we can also divide the players into two groups. The ones that actively search for groups and the ones that just wait for someone else to build a group. Now guess who gets to play more dungeons?
So we now have an incentive to actively search groups, instead of passively waiting for the active searchers. The result is that people are more likely trying to build groups actively, as it is the more successful way to play. So more people will now be more active in chat, which results in a more social community.
Third we have the passive searchers rallying around the active searchers, therefore making an effort to stay in touch with some of the active searchers, thus resulting in some kind of relationship of sort, which is more social again.
We’re basically giving incentives to be more active in chat, giving more opportunities to talk to each other and filtering out the completely silent crowd that has no real reason to play a cooperative multiplayer game in the first place, that they couldn’t get from a single player game too.
And finally, and this point has to be made clear. Those who think that “LFM tank SH hc” is the social interaction we are talking about… damn… do you really think that or are you building that straw man on purpose to try and push your agenda?
N O B O D Y is saying that. And if you really believe that, then you clearly aren’t even remotely considering the point of view of those that don’t like the DF. You are self absorbed, narrow minded, lack empathy and completely distant from reality. So pleace break out of your way of thinking and really really really start considering what others are really saying.
And start considering the unwanted side effects of changes, instead of only focusing on the most obvious and most imediate effects. Because they are there, whether you like your new shiny feature in the game or not.
That’s a lot of words for "LF1M Dps everything reserved’
Make that two. The hurdle to travel from where I am to the dungeon entrnce and back again when the dungeon is done.
Not everyone sits at the dungeon entrance just waiting for a group, some of us actually wants to play also when not in a group 
And I like your thougth of RDF sorting the more antisocial players out. I just do not really believe in it. The social playres too will use the RDF, maybe olnly to fill up their groups. Believe me, I had much sociallizing with people in RDF dungeons back in the days.
Keep LFD, Dual spec, Race and Faction changes in Wrath Classic (but not at launch)
Give 2 Era servers for TBCC
Let the RP servers survive … or give a new, non-fresh PvE realm for transfer