I never said they wouldn’t. That’s not even part of the argument.
I’m awfully sorry, but this is what I read from your post.
Let me elaborate.
The RDF is GREAT at what it does. That’s why many people want it. Not using it, will be just stupid, as you are just giving yourself a disadvantage.
The point is that the feature invites a certain crowd.
If you have ever played DayZ, you might know this.
In DayZ you can attack any player you see, kill them and take their stuff. This feature invites the hardcore PvP-Crowd and the Rogue-Player crowd.
But what if you’re all about just surviving and that Zombie-Apocalypse stuff and don’t care much for PvP fights in a shooter?
In that case you’re just boned. Because kill on sight, is how many play this game. It’s the most successful way to play the game. You have to expect every other player to kill you, if you don’t kill them first. So… you’re just doing that. You don’t want to kill them, you don’t want to take their loot, but you can’t just ignore them, because they are a threat to you and will most likely kill you.
You’re now forced into some kind of Deathmatch-Mindset, because without that mindset, you’re just giving yourself a horrible disadvantage. Your other option, if you want to experience a zombie-Survival game that is not just a glorified Deathmatch, is to just play another game.
So no matter who you are, if you are loving the PvP in DayZ and play the game mainly to fight other players, you don’t care for PvP but do fight other players simply because of your own survival or you just hate it but play it anyways, because you want to play with your friends… all of those categorys will learn that KoS is the way to go.
Now we use that same principle on the DF.
As it is right now, without the DF, we also have various groups of players. We have the “purists” like myself, who don’t want the DF at all. You have the people that don’t like the DF, but play the game anyway for other reasons, you have those that simply don’t care whether it’s one way or the other and you have the crowd that want the DF but can get by without it and you have the players that want the DF and won’t play without it. The last ones are mostly the completely anti-social gamers. Those are currently barely in the game.
Right now we all play on a level playing field. We all have to find groups the old fashioned way.
But when the DF comes then there will only be the purists who will not use it and maybe some of the Crowd that doesn’t necessarily like it, but will endure it’s existence.
Everyone else will be using the DF. And with everyone else using the DF, the pool of players to recruit the old fashioned way will be VERY small. Thus it gets even harder to do it the old way.
It will probably happen a lot that you may get one or two people and that’s it. Because nobody is reading the LFG-Chat anymore or simply doesn’t care, because if they wanted to join a dungeon group, they would just click a button and do whatever while waiting.
So if you only have those two people you have two options. Give up and disband the group… or use the DF to fill your group.
The mere existence of the DF forces us to play the game a certain way. Just like the mere existence of KoS-Players in DayZ forced us to play a certain way.
And since the DF is so good at what it does, the old school way will not be viable. The mere existence of it even outright “damages” our way to play. So we either don’t play or we use it, even if we don’t like it. So yes… even Anti-DFers will eventually use the DF or stop playing.
1 Like
No you are.
Aha now I get you. I’m in the mostly indifferent (nice to have for teleport) group.
And I SO get what you’re saying about people forcing their gamestyle on you! This is one of the things I’ve been fighting against since we began. This is why I advocate for addons instead of “QoL” in the UI. This is why I plead for the conservation of RP (low pop) servers. and so much more.
And as RDF is not a “don’t like it, don’t use it” issue as so many of the other ones, I am mostly with you. My ‘thing’ is the NoChanges, and that’s why I would like RDF to be in Wrath Classic. But so decidedly NOT at launch!
I am as you migth have gathered, actually giving myself the disadvantage of not using addons 
in a way it does. but with the crisis of gdkp and boost calls may cause the demand for rdf
The certain crowd is already there. Honestly classic is nothing like how I remember the original games but is still fun in it’s own way. Every time I saw that god ugly lizard mount I puked in my mouth but doesn’t mean you have to be rude to them. You make the ‘purists’ sound like the ones I’d like to avoid, so if they would not use RDF then I say bring it in because it sounds lovely.
I clearly remember chain pulling dungeons before ICC patch all day long. The reason why 3.3 dungeons were way harder(and disliked at the same time because they were hard) because PEOPLE COMPLAINED LONG BEFORE 3.3 that other heroics were “too easy”. They simply did not understood that the real reason they were clearing dungeons so easily was that average player had way better gear.
No, 3.3 did not changed anything overnight. Actually new dungeons were pretty hard and you had to take them slow.
The only bad thing about RDF is the fact that it’s cross server. However that not only contributes to the ruination of the social aspect of the game, but also paves the way for antisocial behaviour en masse.
I don’t think I made the “purists” sound like anything. Because all I said was “they don’t want the DF”.
1 Like
y’all still going on about it ?
I can say the same to you, are you sure there will be constant kicks? We havent had wotlk in years, so we can only compare to private servers. Atleast on those i have been on, low/bad dps never gets kicked. Only those who go afk, or are toxic.
Lets be real here though, neither of us believes that people just randomly votekicks people.
Not really sure what you are trying to say, with this. Tank might leave, and new tank might not wanna join? That isnt exactly a good thing?
In all honesty, without RDF, i will just tank the dungeons i need and just not invite plate-users so i can take gear for OS.
I mean, just look at tbc dungeons, how many tanks have HR’d loot in dungeons? How many times have rogues for example been denied entry in dungeons? How many times have people SPESIFICALLY asked for mages/locks for “spellcleave”?
Sure, it wont be the same in wotlk with new abilities, but there will be discrimination against certain speccs:)
People pay for tanks in tbc, there is no denying it. There was even a time i could charge 150g per heroic i tanked, and 75g for normal.
dungeon finder in wrath would be great sucks that they removed however a good compromise is they could added the modern group finder which makes it easier to find gorup can apply to multiple ones and allow the lead to look at what classes or role they need while also having an idea of what gear they have through ilvl. if they added this instead of the random dungeon finder that would be a fair compromise however it was one of the best features of wrath and it would make classic better if it was included.
I’m sure the fact that RDF would remove the opportunity for some sweaty people to make gold from boosting doesn’t add to the diehard resistance in the slightest.
Just how is it going to do that? People would still write WTS/WTB Boost and will be missing in any LFD tool, automatic or not, because they are manually boosted, because they want AFK leveling making LFD empty.
1 Like
Yeah, when sometimes even finding DPSers for a dungeon takes several minutes if it’s not the daily (let alone healer or tank), the thing I tell myself when I’m sitting around waiting to find people who’re nowhere to be seen is “thank god there’s less people available for groups” /s
Personally, if those “silent” people can still play their character and make the dungeon a smooth experience so we can all get out of it with our loot and be one step closer to the actual PvE social experience - i.e. raids - I’d rather take them than just wasting yet another night spending more time making a dungeon group than actually running through the dungeon itself.
RDF doesnt dictate how social you are supposed to be in the game … I met guild that I spent whole legion with exactly in some random dungeon and if there wasnt random dungeon finder I would probably skip instances completely and just lvl up with quests (since unlike on classic/tbc questing actually doesnt suck with later xpacs …)
Why people are making fun of this “social aspect crowd” and “lf tank/inv and summ” being social interaction, is because you can socially interact with people no matter where you are … its not like chat suddenly disappears when you join through dungeon finder, and there are as many mute people as there are annoying overly talkative clowns and that wont change just because you click on “join dungeon” instead of “macro that says inv”
And unlike flying, where people who dont like flying mounts would be heavily gimped by such decision … you can in fact not use dungeon finder to find random people … most tryhard, serious and other people who dont want to waste time with randoms, will be out there with guilds or spamming in chat, form group and then clear the whole dungeon in 5 minutes … it will be more difficult to find a group, but it will be the more effective way to do dungeons …
some other things:
- Tanks holding groups hostage, kick them, dungeons are easier and dual talents will increase number of tanks
- Kicking people “for no reason” will happen, happened 15 years ago and is happening now, not much you can do about that, removing DF wont change that … (my T5 rogue got kicked from HC MGT for not doing as much dmg as T6 warr and arcane mage on aoe packs, and that was after first boss so I had wasted ID for that day…)
- Skipping dungeons is already happening now, happened before and will happen in the future again … try doing something like BF (only paladins want that, they will leave after first boss and noone wants to do that because regular mobs hit harder than SWP bosses), SHH (2days 15 hours long run without full aoe setup), arcatraz, SL or crappy time traveling events … the only thing people are doing is MGT and SP for haste trinket …
- Dungeons from older content, yes you can access them without help, but who wants to spent 2 hours traveling across the world for dungeon that gives you half a level, when in the same time you can do 15678 levels by simply questing …
1 Like
RDF doesn’t dictate how social you are supposed to be, but it takes away the NEED to be social. This invites the anti-social crowd that I don’t want in the game in the same way I don’t want cheaters, People lacking sportsmanship, ragers, kiddies that want intercourse with my mother, egoists and the like in the game.
Because they also shape the community. And I want a good community.
Incentive, my dude… incentive.
I already explained how the mere existence of the DF impacts that.
Won’t change with DF. I’d even say it will get worse.
Great. And that will also happen more with the DF, because all they need to do is push a button and a program delivers them a new DD. No questions asked, no effort necessary. No effort that might make it a little less daunting to just “endure” playing with you and your “subpar” damage instead.
So? If something is already bad, we might aswell make it even worse?! Is that your point?
2 hours? Just so you know, the longest flight path in the game I think is Darnassus to Gadgetzan. That one takes 15 Minutes.
If you are taking two hours I have some advice for you.
Use flight masters.
Use a mount.
Deactivate walking.
and finally: Stop overexaggerating so much. It takes 15 Minutes to get to any dungeon, unless you don’t have the flight path unlocked. And even then there are summoning stones. It only takes two of five people to go there. So only two need to have the flight path unlocked.
Stop inventing problems where there is no problem.
1 Like
I facepalmed so hard I pushed out my other hand that was in since some dude said you cant know how geared people are if they use transmog …
LOL there’s no NEED to be social in dungeons. Actually most runs are pretty much silent. No one talks besides a “Hi” and maybe a “thx for the group”.
And finally, take your own advice:
6 Likes