Right now, to be successful in the game, you need other people and you benefit a great deal if you stay in touch with them.
With DF, you don’t and you don’t even need to be as baseline social as to ask others whether they want to group up or not.
This baseline of asking other people does a great deal in keeping the anti-social people out.
N O B O D Y says you need to be particularly social while in a dungeon. And I am getting more and more convinced that you don’t even know what being social means. Because some of you equate it to telling other your life stories or how your day has been?
Yes, it definitely is ruining all social aspects of the game. The only really annoying thing is trade-chat-spam, so to stop that, we can just use LFG, and for me it will be fine for example. I think we first need to see the game without RDF before crying for its implementation.
lol no it didn’t. At the time this feature was actually very well received by the community. At that point people were sick of spamming trade for the last member, for a faceroll heroic dungeon.
It didn’t change anything about the server dynamic. The towns were as busy as ever, trade chat was still busy as ever - even better now that the dungeon spam was less - and people could do dungeons while lvling alts in a better manner.
Source: I played since OG Burning Crusade so I was there. I also read the forums back then and the negativity about this only really surged when cata was out a while. LFD is often the scapegoat for the downfall of wow.
But we did see the game without RDF, its called classic and TBCC and it sucks … old dungeons are impossible since everyone leaves the moment they realize you actually want to play them and not just have 70 rush you … normal dungeons already have tryhard mentality and everyone expects pala+spell cleave even on normal ramps and for HC everyone expects full sunwell gear and aside from daily Q its impossible to do any other dungeons than like SP, not even mentioning some of those that actually suck …
And we could have seen what WotLK looks like without RDF, because it wasnt there right at the start, and blizz could then say “ok situation sucks, we will release it phase earlier” or something like that …
Instead blizz outright said “you think you want rdf, but you dont” …
Baseline asking other players to get an invite is “inv [role]” or "need [role]?]. Thats what will be missing and its debatable if its a “great deal” compared to the RDF upsides.
You are correct with saying"N O B O D Y says you need to be particularly social while in a dungeon", since players behavior in non premade groups wont change much. Since you dont state what you personally think being social means, its hard to guess what you are aiming at. If the content requires to call for a drink or mark/cc a target, players will do so. If its not necessary, they usually wont and keep silent.
You imply that players dont seek or enjoy to play with other humans, as soon they choose to queue with the RDF. You also imply that players will be more friendly and sociable in random groups compared to RDF groups. If they are polite or not depends on each personality of them and how the run goes.
You, yourself are convinced, that without bonds you cannot do much when it comes to dungeons. You think these hardships to find a group create the necessity of players to form real social bounds, like adding friends and joining guilds and this is good for the community and the game. You are correct when it comes to the vanilla mindset, however wotlk is ment to be different.
The tool is aimed not for players like you, who dont have problems finding a group due to their connections, but for players who choose to play the game without having a guild and a full friend list. Playing one or two dungeons a week, just because its a nice game and to relax after a hard day of work. These players exist in great number too and they face the hardships you want to keep right now, without any noticeable difference to a RDF experience besides the “inv [role]” to join a group. For them, nothing will change besides the faster and easier invites.
I believe you want to force players into something you think is better for them, but many dont enjoy what you enjoy. You personally like to queue with premades and not full random groups right now and this is understandable. However, you can and will still queue with premades when RDF is released, because it has many advantages over full random groups. Firstly, as a dps you dont have to wait as long if you queue with a healer or tank, secondly, any dps you invite by yourself will usually perform better than the average RDF dps player. The more players queue premade, the faster the invites and the smoother the runs.
RDF is not designed for players like you. You already have the bonds and are happy with it and players, who dont play like you, face hardships when it comes to finding/building groups. In the end you dont like RDF because it fixes problems that you personally dont have and you dont want players to have fun with things you dont really enjoy.
TLDR: Dont try to force players to play the way you do. You want hardships for other players and think playing the game without social bonds (guild/friendlist) is wrong, but players in wotlk are given the choice to play casually. RDF is not designed for players like you.
I changed my mind on RDF I think it’s awful. If they implement RDF I think it should not be cross server. Being able to act with impunity really does bring out the worst in people. Try doing a lot of RDF in retail and you will see what I mean.
Id agree with the crossrealm aspect, but not the tool itself. As long as low pop realms exist, these players should get a chance to queue too.
If crossrealm is introduced, there are multiple ways to address the problem.
Examples:
Matchmaking should prioritize matching players of one realm, and only match crossrealm once players are in queue for a longer time (like 15+ minutes) aka low pop servers. This way, as long as you play on a mid/high pop server, you will mainly play with your realm mates. I would also like to see prioritizing to match same language servers.
There could be an option in the tool to choose to match realm only or crossrealm. So everyone has the choice to have faster queues or a better experience.
First of all I want to thank you for really engaging in a discussion instead of going for namecalling or unneeded sarcasm. I really appreciate that.
You’re slightly missing the point. The point is not that this particular thing will be missing. The point is that this particular thing will no longer be needed and therefore invite a different crowd of people that will then make up a more significant part of the community.
This will reshape the community. And with that reshaped community the game as a whole will be less appealing to another crowd. The social player that likes it, that it is expected of others that they usually don’t mind or even welcome a conversation.
And before anyone wants to build that straw man again: No, it’s not about telling one’s life story or how your day has been.
If you don’t know how natural conversation works: The topics are usually game related, because we all have that thing in common. Be it lore, class balance, itemization or maybe even just games in general, player advice or stuff like that. If you never had any conversation like that in the game, or you never enjoyed that, then why are you playing an MMORPG instead of Diablo, Skyrim or Witcher?
Good point. Maybe I should talk about that a little.
With “being social” I am not talking about anything big. What I mean is common courtesy and baseline pleasentries and an overall intention to take part in conversations and exchange of opinions and advice. Not necessarily all at the same time.
I am explicitly NOT talking about doing that all the time, but most of the time being someone who takes part and or welcomes these kinds of things. The opposite would be someone who would rather avoid all this and not talk to others at all, if they had the choice. If you are the latter, then MMORPGs are not for you… or at least they shouldn’t. But that is exactly why people say that MMORPGs are no longer MMORPGs and feel more like Single-Player games with optional Multiplayer.
WoW (Vanilla) Classic was still what I would call an MMORPG. The Game was built so much on working together with others, building guilds and bonds that would help you in the long run. Classes were a lot more distinct in their abilities and had much bigger weaknesses that other classes could balance out. Thus the game was built for team play, and creating long lasting companionships.
No, I am not implying that. Or at least that is not what I am talking about.
As mentioned before, I am talking about incentive. With the RDF there is one less incentive to use the chat, talk to others etc. There is one less hurdle for Players to overcome. Because now you can do dungeons without ever using the chat, and this does not change the existing players. It just invites the silent and anti-social (I’m not saying unfriendly or toxic) crowd. With the anti-social crowd in the mix, the expectation of players how other players will behave will change.
Example: As it is right now, the anti-social gamers are very rare within the game. That means whenever I talk to someone about whatever topic, I am expecting them to reply to me and do so in a certain way. Because most people within the game would do so. But if the anti-social gamers are becoming a bigger part of the community, my expectation shifts and I will start asking myself if it’s worth the effort to even try to talk to them. And if the probability to get a pleasent reply at all gets lower, I will do it less. With less people even trying, it will happen less.
By the way: This is how culture works. Culture is basically a set of expectations and ideals and common knowledge within a group. I’m mentioning this, because you may catch me mentioning the game’s “culture”.
I know all this. And I understand all this. But herein lies the problem. If you try to please everyone, no one will be happy. And this change will make the anti-social gamers happy, but it will not please the social gamers.
For the prior, there are different games for them where they can do exactly that. Retail being one of them. But for the social gamers, there isn’t much besides WoW classic anymore. If the RDF is implemented, I will no longer be able to enjoy the game. And I think a lot of gamers think the same way… or will learn that they think the same way. After all most of us loved the RDF when it was first implemented. Until we finally realized how lonely the game started to feel in the months to come. I think many people do not yet realize who drastic the changes will be. How the community will change simply because of that feature. And many people might not even realize what it is, that changed. They only realize they are not having fun anymore but can’t put their finger on why that may be. I’m no genius. I just realized what it was months into cataclysm. I thought it was the lack of difficulty when I quit the game. But now I know that wasn’t it. A friend within classic said it best, when they just said that at the end of WotLK and beginning of Cataclysm they just “felt lonely within the game.”. And that’s what happened to me. There were no more conversations. Barely a “Hi” and “Bye” and no long lasting connections at all, once the people I knew since Vanilla had left.
And I don’t want this to happen again. I don’t want others to fall into the same pitfalls I fell into when the RDF was first implemented. I want them to know what the long lasting effects are, and I want them to think about if that is really what they want the game to be like.
But you probably understand that since you said this:
But it’s as they say (or sing): Don’t know what you got, 'til it’s gone.
And here you are wrong about me. I actually LOVE queuing with randoms. Because with the game as it is, I have a certain expectation of what kind of players I will be grouping up with. With the RDF that expectation will end. And it will take the joy out of grouping up with randoms. Especially if it’s cross-realm.
And here is where we really clash. Because you are right. The RDF is not designed for players like me. But it will reshape the whole game in a way that will not be designed for players like me. The feature will make the Game unappealing to me. And not just me. One of the reasons I played classic to this point, was that it was still a game that was designed for players like me.
And I said from the start “I will stop playing WoW again, once they implement the RDF in WotLK”. So when Blizzard announced that there will be no RDF, that really made a difference for me. Because I think it might remain a game designed for players like me.
So the RDF does not just fix a problem that I don’t have. The RDF CREATES a problem that I WILL have. I don’t care whether other players have fun with anything or not. I care about having fun myself. Because that’s the reason I play this game. That’s the reason WE ALL play this game. And it’s not more or less selfish than wanting the RDF. Because this feature is such a fundamental change, that it can only go one way or the other.
But there is one little difference. If there is no “classic” anymore, and by “classic” I mean an MMORPG that still follows a similar design philosophy as the original vanilla WoW and is made for a target group that I am part of, there is nothing like it anymore. Nothing at all. While RDF-Fans and anti-social gamers can play Retail, SWToR, FF, Guild Wars 2, Single-Player RPGs, Secret World Legends and many more titles.
But do those games have raids like Ulduar, ICC etc?
I mean, the way you talk about dungeons and the dungeon experience in general, you make it sound like it’s this kind of central part of the game that it really is not. At least, not in WotLK.
The problem with not having RDF in WotLK is that, like now in TBC, dungeons will stop being worth the effort past phase 1 - in fact, they will stop being so even faster. At least in TBC there were a handful of items - like certain blue trinkets and epic drops - that stayed relevant for at least until P3. This will not be the case at all in WotLK. Once Ulduar phase drops, the only reason for doing dungeons if you’re a main (or an alt that was geared through P1 already) will be to get badges. Period.
What this means is that, if I have to spend that much time to build a group and get rolling with it, I might as well do a raid instead. And it’s not like it’s easy to run out of options either, considering we’ll have both 10m and 25m lockouts. By the time ICC drops, we’ll have so many raids we can do that you probably won’t be able to do all of them in a single week. And why would you waste time trying to make a group for Nexus or Uthgarde Pinnacle when, in pretty much the same time, you can do a Naxx10 or ToC10 run and get more badges and better loot, as well? The only exception would be dailies (if they give you the latest emblem currency), and that’s it.
With RDF in the game, it becomes both easier to fill in a dungeon run or two whenever you have time (just like with Battlegrounds), and to gear up for newer players and alts. Without RDF, both newer players and alts will have one heck of a time, because even Naxx runs will prolly not take them if they’re still in green gear, but they will have a hard time finding anybody else to group with because most people (who’re not wearing greens anymore) won’t have any reason to waste time in dungeons as explained above.
Your MMORPG fantasy would work if we had something like, say, Mythic dungeons - with raid-level rewards and difficulty - that incentivize and reward cooperation adequately. But this is not the case for WotLK as it is. At all. Once P1 is done, the dungeon scene will die completely besides dailies.
Exactly my point. Let’s make it an integral part of the game.
You can still get badges without the RDF. What are you talking about?
If you take more time getting a group than clearing a raid, then you’re doing group finding wrong.
Hence why we should make Guilds an integral part of the Game. So even newer players have others that are willing to help them. If your guild is not willing to help you, your guild is guano and you should find a new one that actually values comradery.
I still don’t get how RDF changes that. If I have all the stuff from a dungeon, I won’t do that dungeon anymore… unless a guild mate or buddy asks me to help them out.
The ability to do dailies work just the same as before. I really don’t see the problem.
Simply removing RDF won’t make it an integral part of the game. In fact, it will give people even less reason to run them because of the extra time and effort required to get them going.
Badges in WotLK work differently from TBC. You no longer have Badges of Justice that drop everywhere like in TBC. Instead, you have several tiers of Emblems. In phase 1 you have Emblems of Heroism, which drop from heroic dungeons, and Emblems of Valor which drop from raids. Once phase 2 comes, Ulduar drops the Emblem of Conquest, while everything else drops Emblem of Valor. And so on and so forth.
What this means is that mains and geared alts will have absolutely no need for dungeons (besides the daily which will give 2 of the “latest” current emblem) because they will generally need only the emblems dropping from the newest raid, and if they happen to need a bunch of emblems for something else (like a couple heirlooms, a rep token or w/e) they can easily speedrun a Naxx10 or something for a couple dozen emblems. The only people who will need the lower-tier emblem (and who won’t be allowed in the aforementioned speedruns) will be newer players and alts. However, they will have a much harder time finding groups without RDF than they would if RDF was in the game.
Even if you play a tank, it takes less time now to collect 13 badges in a ZA than it takes doing 3-4 dungeons, and way less time to collect 22 badges in Karazhan than it would take by doing dungeons. Especially if you’re doing it via pugs, because the large majority of pugs won’t hang out for more than a single dungeon (especially tanks/healers) and you’ll constantly have to remake a new group.
This difference will be magnified tenfold in WotLK because you won’t just have one Karazhan and one Zul’Aman. Instead, you will have Naxx10, OS10, Ulduar10, ToC10, their 25m versions…
The problem is that those newer players will be the minority, even among recruits - especially with the new fresh realms announced. The more hardcore guilds - which are the more likely to have people playing every day and be available for dungeons - won’t even invite you since they simply have no need. The more chill guild - like the one I’m currently in - have people playing a lot less outside raid, so you have little insurance that, when you will need to get a group going, there will be people around to do so. At that point it’s much easier to just schedule a raid instead - in fact that’s what I’ve been doing these days, it’s much easier to gather people around for something like a ZA than it is for a dungeon - nobody schedules dungeons on Discord anyway, except maybe MGT hc or something. Again, this will only be even more in full force in WotLK thanks to the higher availability of farming raids.
What changes is that, if people can quickly hop in and out of a dungeon in 15-20 mins, like with a BG right now, they will be more inclined to do so even whenever they have some time in their hands - since it requires little effort and commitment anyway. Plus, if RDF were to be x-realm, it would allow you to do dungeons even off prime time, when there wouldn’t be people around for groups or raids anyway - for comparison, even at 2 AM, you can get an AV going in 3-4 mins at most, but good luck finding 5 people for a heroic dungeon in that same time at that same hour. Without RDF, most people just won’t bother because the time it takes to build the group in the first place would be better spent running a 10m raid instead.
The players are already there. You see them rarely in the dungeons, because of the hurdle to find a group in a reasonable time and overall gatekeeping keeps them from doing group content. These players, that tend to be more quiet, would like to play dungeons regularly, but currently dont. You want to keep them out, which makes sense from your perspective, since you want to play with like-minded people. It is not in the interest of the casual players though.
As said, you want to keep these players away from your experience. They are there, but play less than they would with RDF and play less group content. Having RDF wont change the mindset of anyone, its just that more players can play the dungeon content.
Yesterday I did like 10-15 normal dungeons (level 60-62) with different groups and there was not one of these topics except I was begging them in advance to not roll on my healing stat items as dps. Other than that, it was more communication on the level of “water pls” and “yw”. These conversations you mention do happen, but I havent seen them in a while. They are quite rare with full random groups. You seem to play with premade players more often, so its more likely to have these conversations, since it makes sense to get to know people you play with more regularly.
Thats the main issue I have with your stance. You are a gatekeeper who wants to exclude anyone, that doesnt play the game the way you want it to be played. Wotlk is not vanilla+. I could argue that wotlk, since it doesnt follow the vanilla mindset, isnt ment for players like you. However, you can still play the game as you like it to be played, with like-minded people around you, so why should I try to keep you away from playing the game as you like?
Wow was always casual in a way, even in vanilla. You could level up to max level without talking to any player. Only the endgame gearing required to form groups and join guilds, since pugs werent as common as today back in the day.
I understand you like the setting you describe, since it was more of a MMORPG feeling to it. However, wotlk was designed with the mindset “bring the player, not the class” and overall it had more catchup mechanics and less gatekeep elements. It was made, so players with less time to invest have a chance to experience the content, that before only the more committed players were able to see.
I get the impression you dont like wotlk and its mindset. You want vanilla or vanilla+, since you prefer MMORPG interactions over the pure gameplay.
Yes, you dont want to play with silent players and want to keep them from playing your game. Anyone having problems with the language of the server or is the silent type is not fit to play the game in your opinion. Understandable from your perspective, but not fitting the mindset of wotlk and not fair towards these players.
If you want to keep chatting, keep playing with premades, instead of denying a huge group of players to play the game. Wotlk had a design change and RDF was introduced with these players in mind.
If your vision of culture is to exclude anyone who isnt on your page, like silent people never invited to parties, I dont think that is a good thing.
You mix up “classic wow” with all expansions to come after vanilla. You say “classic” but you mean “vanilla”. The point is that the wotlk design doesnt fit with your (vanilla) mindset. You want other players to not play wotlk, as it was ment to be played. These players like wotlk as it was, but you dont. You want the game to be changed. Its you who should play on a vanilla server, because you wont be able to enjoy wotlk unchanged.
You have all these conversations you talk about with random players. Im happy if my group members can understand basic English on Firemaw. The crossrealm thing is indeed a noticeable issue, behavior wise and language wise, which I already suggested solutions for.
How long do you think you could keep a “classic”, or more apt “vanilla” mindset. RDF was introduced in 3.3.0. After that (and Ruby sanctum), its basically Catacalysm patch. Do you think you could keep a vanilla design in cataclysm? I highly doubt it. The game changed with every patch, every feature, towards todays retail version. Every player has their favorite expansion. The classic series was made not to specifically have vanilla+, but to recreate the old experiences faithfully.
Even if RDF wound not come until cata, it would only take a few months until you are fed up anyway, unless you keep all the new features out of the game.
I personally play the game right now, because I like wotlk as it was and want to have a good start once it launches. If there are no era servers, Ill quit once cata hits. All people you have contact with might me same-minded, but thats only your perspective. Many others will prefer wotlk as it was originally was, since they want to play a good game, not specifically an MMORPG in vanilla style.
The “classic-vanilla” spirit was never part of wotlk back in the day. You wish for a good game, a never ending vanilla+ journey yourself. Its understandable you would enjoy this, but not in the interest of most other players out there, that you would like to keep out.
Your best possible solution would be 2 different classic versions, since telling wow fans to switch to other games, because you dont like their presence, is unreasonable. One faithful recreation for the more silent casual players, that you detest and dont want to have in your game, and one vanilla+ version, faithful to the MMORPG mindset, so you can keep playing with same-minded players forever.
TLDR: You want vanilla+ and would like to keep out anyone who doesnt fit your MMORPG mindset. Understandable, but neither fair towards the wow fans, nor anything close to faithful recreation or what the majority of the community wants.
I hope I didn’t miss something. I read it all, but rather quickly.
It sounds like we are somewhat on the same page.
Yes, I want “The Game to change to accommodate my personal tastes”. But the quotation marks there are not by accident.
As I mentioned before, I was well prepared to just leave the game after TBC ends, because you are right. The original WotLK, at least after the RDF was introduced, was not designed for players like me. That is perfectly correct. But it seems Blizzard wants to try a different route this time. And I find that interesting. I might actually enjoy it, and I want to convince others of the advantages this decision brings.
Gatekeeping itself is not a bad thing. Everyone does it all the time. It’s like Knife. You can use it to build something great or you can use it to do something horrible. But by itself it is neither good nor bad. So yes, I am a gatekeeper. But not because I hate others. Not because some strange unreasonable bias, but because I want others to see how great the vanilla-mindset can be and how easily it will be destroyed. Some might even argue, that the mega servers have already destroyed it and I got to admit, they have a point and it saddens me deeply.
You also asked whether I think that you can keep a vanilla mindset even after WotLK. To be honest, I think it works. It won’t be as easy as just leaving the RDF out of the game. I am not that naive. But I think it works. For example I think Blizzard mentioning a quest-NPC in Dalaran that offers you a repeatable quest for a daily, that could give you the latest Mark upon completing a randomly chosen dungeon. This would help with the marks design of WotLK. I would also either remove the Guild-bonuses completely or make it so you have to earn your guild bonuses over and over again. For example by finishing dungeons with at least one guild mate per week, to keep the bonuses active. But I digress.
To be honest, I am not even thinking about Cataclysm as that is the point where the lore went downhill for me and I will probably not play Cataclysm again either way.
About the language barrier… I have the luxury of playing on a german realm. So this is a point I haven’t considered too much yet. But I think that is not a good point at all. I don’t think it’s better to go from players not joining with anyone because of a language barrier to forcing them together by using the RDF. I think that might even create more animosity and People getting annoyed by those people as they are now forced to play with someone that doesn’t even understand “Moon = Sheep” and will eventually get kicked because of frustration amongst the rest of the group.
And one final thought… I wouldn’t even be mad, if Blizzard suddenly decided “We changed our minds. We’ll go with NoChanges!” and then actually doing it. But I don’t believe Blizzard will ever have the balls, guts and common sense to go with NoChanges… mostly because they would have to undo certain changes before they could even consider going with NoChanges again.
Man, I get your view but still cannot get why your argument is “I dont want to have RDF in the game” instead of “I will not use RDF in the game”.
There are two ways to find a group for a dungeon. Either by talking to your ingame friends/guildies or by finding random people. RDF covers the later without touching the first.
Now if there is no RDF your option is to spam LFG and World channels. In the same channels though, there are countless other messages (come to Firemaw EU and you’ll see what I mean) with various content. It is really difficult to find a party like this. So what you will do? Use bulletin board addon, that filters the channels and present you the LFG messages per instance. You use an addon and try to whisper to the player/leader, she usualy checks if the class is ok for her (since she does not want competition for the loot) and then invites you.
So instead of queueing in a ingame tool, you use a 3rd party addon to create a party with strangers. And on top, you lose the perks of the ingame tools that so many guys have already mentioned in here.
There is no way we will go back to how the game was. People talk about retail and how hopeless it is. Well MANY people from retail play at classic servers as well. The whole community is not the same. It was mixed with the terrible private servers community full of toxicity and greed. We will not be saved if RFD is removed. It is not the tool. It is the people. Good people will have fun with you either from RFD or LFG channel. Toxic people will still ninja, pull the “I am the tank” card, call you a retard or a noob etc. The tool is not to blame now.
I have explained that multiple times. It’s actually almost the one single thing I am talking about in this thread.
If you still don’t get why you need to start reading more carefully.
But here is the short version.
I like to queue with randoms. But the RDF invites a crowd of people that are currently not that big of a part of the community. And I like that, at the moment, when I run a dungeon with randoms, I can pretty much expect to have a certain kind of people with me, and not the kind that the RDF will bring to the game.
And you’re right. A lot of Retail-people are already in the game… AND THAT IS THE DAMN PROBLEM! It’s not that I don’t like those people because they play retail. It’s that they most likely have a certain mindset to even enjoy retail. And the mindset is, what I don’t like. Because it’s the same mindset that turned WoW into what retail is today.
I don’t want Blizzard to cater to them, because I have already seen where that leads.
I don’t want to to play with those people, because they do not make the game more enjoyable for me. At best they don’t annoy me. At worst they make me want to stop playing.
And just so you don’t get any stupid Ideas. I know there are exceptions. I will gladly play with those exceptions. But the exceptions are just that… exceptions. The bigger part of Retail-Players do have that mindset that I don’t like, otherwise they wouldn’t be playing retail.
How can you relate the “kind of people” with the use of RDF? What kind of correlation is this? “RDF INVITES the crowd of people that…”… How do you AVOID this kind of strangers now? The same people you are playing with now, will probably be there at WotLK. There is no logic in this, at least no logic I can grasp
I also stated that absence of RDF will be substitued by 3rd party addons that does the job (at least the part of the job to actually find people to play with). Most probably, strangers that you play with now and you enjoy, use this addon. And the only difference with RDF is that you cannot control class you will play with. So you might have to roll against someone else for your loot.
You need to understand that RDF is not the reason of “what you have seen”. Community has changed. New generation of people came to the game who plays differently. As I read from someone in lock discord “zoomers run the game now” And this means, RDF will not harm the game at its state because whatever harm it’s done, its’ done. And it came from us not RDF.
And this means, RDF will not harm the game at its state because whatever harm it’s done, its’ done. And it came from us not RDF.