Is RDF really ruining social aspects of the game?

This sounds as if RDF will suddenly make a largeish group of people that so far did not play Classic, pop up and begin to play - I do not suppose this is what you really mean - then what?

The real problem is people like you (and WoW devs) assuming that WoW’s population can be divided into Classic-minded players and Retail-minded players, as if nothing stays in-between those. I’m a TBC/WotLK-minded player. And I’m sure a lot of players feel the same as me. But apparently none of this matters to our monkey devs. Either I like Vanilla or I like Retail. Too bad I kinda despise both.

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He wants to keep silent/casual players out of the game. He does never want to meet them. Firstly thats players that might join the game later who like the RDF. Secondly thats players today, that play silently for themselves and dont want to invest the time/effort to do dungeons as much as they would with RDF.
He wants a specific vanilla MMORPG experience with only like-minded players and everyone else has to be excluded because it harm his ingame experience.

Its not really specifically about RDF, its that he is convinced that if the game game content overall is accessible for all players without todays barriers of hardships (like need for addons, time investment, gear/spec gatekeeping) that force players to be more social or quit in his opinion, he wont enjoy the game anymore.

He doesnt care about the upsides of the RDF and isnt open to a real discussion, when it comes to this topic. He just wants his perfect vanilla+ experience and exclude everyone who likes wotlk for being wotlk.

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Problem is, the devs themselves apparently think their only audience is either retail players or these “vanilla+” wannabes, with nothing in-between. Imagine not acknowledging your most successful expansion ever, numbers-wise, as an independent audience.

The devs are not really aware of anything at this point. Its no surprise. They communicate over twitter and dont accept feedback besides the few posts they read. However, these are never representative for the community.
Additionally they seem to have only a vague idea about wotlk as it was. They never bothered to check private servers or even google when and why which features were released.

Prime examples are they still think that RDF was introduced in 3.3.5 and not in 3.3.0. and that the “community” doesnt want the feature, while it is not clear who they even talked to and when that was. Any poll proves them otherwise.
The other example is that they try to recreate the “rough edges” like spell batching, heartbeat resists in pvp, cyclones in Nagrand arena in tbc or fire walls in Ring of Valor in wotlk. Noone seriously playing pvp/arena wanted that (besides heartbeat resists, since some classes get an advantage, but not because its a good design). In these things they try to be as faithful as they can be, even if its not wanted by players and the design was obviously so faulty, that it had to be changed. Nagrand arena and RoV were so bad, they had to be addressed within 1-2 patches.

BUT. They think about so many changes to “make the game better”. It doesnt make sense. They have no idea and dont bother to ask anyone with advanced knowledge, make polls or even use google. They are flying blind and noone knows where we will end up or if the plane will crash. They dont know either.

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Don’t forget them having no idea of how dual spec worked on WotLK until people explained them on Twitter^^ “We think you shouldn’t be able to change it in combat
” “But that’s how it already is!” Priceless.

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Yes, it feels like none of them really played WoW when Vanilla, TBC and Wrath was actual contents. This is why I scream for NoChanges, as their idea of someChanges often hurt more than they help. I even tried talking to :face_with_symbols_over_mouth: on Twitter - he has no idea of the topic we discussed, but really, and he a developer now!

I have never heard anyone (other than being sloppy by saying last patch instead of last mayor patch) say it was introduced in 3.3.5 and arguing about having it included before we are at that point in wrath is just stupid, it would be like arguing that we should have had the isle badge vendor from day 1

Unfortunately they’re going to build Wrath Classic on patch 3.3.0

Should we have waited until last phase of TBC to have heroic dailies too?

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I would have been fine with that personally. And we should have waited with removing the attunments until they actually were removed as well if I was the one to decided, although the daily heroics havent been bothering me as much as the likelihood of blizzard having to touch code to make sure we dont get ICC emblems would bother me, something would break if they had to do it and you know it.

Problem is, Blizzard’s reason for not including RDF was not “it wasn’t at launch, we should wait a bit before introducing it”. It was “it’s against the SpiritOfClassic.exe so we’re not including it, PERIOD”, even if it was, in fact, part of WotLK. Heck, they were considering nerfing dual spec (despite it having been in the game since 3.1), and only stopped when faced with basically unanymous dissent. And they removed auto-disenchant feature even if it was part of WotLK pretty much from the beginning.

They don’t care about the timeline, they only care about their own idiosyncratic vision of Classic, the original game be damned. And that’s why people are so upset.

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Additionally, we want to provide a better experience for our new and existing Classic players with the following changes:

  • Level 70 Boost – The level cap will be increased to 80, and we’re introducing a Level 70 Boost so those who didn’t play Burning Crusade Classic but wish to play Wrath with their friends or explore Northrend can do so right away. This boost will be available one per account and can be used on any class except Death Knights.
  • No Dungeon Finder – Players rediscovering Wrath of the Lich King Classic won’t find the Looking for Dungeon feature originally added in Patch 3.3.5. We’ve heard from our Classic community that the importance of social bonds is a big part of what makes Classic their game of choice, and we agree.

It is stated in Blizzards main post about the wotlk release made on 19th of April. If they cant even get their facts right, how can they make right decisions?

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Well the big problem is that most of the people I see argue for RDF are not arguing for “we want it when it was put into the game” but “we want it from day 1” I would be championing the cause if people were arguing for the former and not the latter one.

And to counter that if they can get it wrong why do you trust them to mess with code that non of them have even touched since back then to change anything in it?

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No!!! and this is exactly why #NoChanges is the only possible defence!

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Well tbf if I had to choose between having it from day 1 and not having it at all, I’d definitely prefer the former. Personally, I think the best time to get it would be when Ulduar comes, but even getting it in last phase would STILL be better than not having it at all. And in general it’s the Vanilla-esque attitude of devs that pisses me off the most, and how they don’t even acknowledge WotLK as an independent audience from Vanilla and Retail.

As a casual i really want RDF

Some changes are necessary to an extent, otherwise we would end up getting stuff like, say, 4 lockout ToC that I’m pretty sure nobody rly wants. Point is, those changes should be made on the grounds of what the audience of THAT version of WoW wants, not what a tangential segment of the playerbase (that already has their favorite version available anyways) wants instead.

Do you trust Blizz to know which is what? I don’t.