Is the PvP Gearing System in 9.1 Really a Good Idea?

Community General Discussion
1

So in season 2, PvP gear will experience two changes:

+13 ilvl in PvP activities (world PvP, BGs, arenas)
-6 ilvl from what it would have been (quoting Blizzard’s post: “reduced by 6 from where it would have otherwise been”)

If this had been applied to season 1, then 226 PvP gear would have been 220 in PvE, but would have scaled to 233 (=220+13) in PvP. This is exactly the example and the numbers used in the blue post.

If you think about it, it’s effectively a -6 item level nerf to PvP gear in PvE content, and a net +7 item level buff to PvP gear in PvP (because -6 + 13 = +7).

Those are the facts. Now, reading about this change was a bit shocking to me. Versatility and the versatility bonus from trinkets already introduced a significant separation between PvE and PvP, reducing the cross-over usefulness of gear.

Thus, PvE gear will be even less useful in PvP, and viceversa. So the effort vs. reward, or cost vs. benefit ratio of all gear effectively experiences a negative impact. It makes sense for PvE gear to be the best for PvE content and PvP gear to be the best for PvP content… but to a certain measure. If PvE gear is much better for PvE, and PvP gear is much better for PvP, you might feel inadequately prepared for one activity, from the work carried out doing another.

Feels like less freedom to play what you want to play, for the majority of the playerbase. While doing one activity, you might feel that the reward obtained is less useful for a different activity. In the extreme, imagine gear for M+ only, gear for world questing only, gear for arenas, gear for BGs, etc. Add this to the fact that gear drops have been reduced with respect to other expansions.

On the flip side, how does this really help with the current problems in PvP, such as random BGs mixing players with gear gaps of 50 ilvl or more, and mixing premades and randoms?

I guess it’s all about those MAUs, nowadays. Or perhaps the idea came from the same guy who thought that an entire expansion revolving around garrisons with selfie patches was a good idea.

Personally, I hate the change. We’ll see how it pans out. What do you guys think?

2 Likes
2

I love the change.

PVP gear is best in PVP.
PVE gear is best in PVE.

Being fully PVP geared is still decent in PVE and enables you to transition from high end PVP to mid level PVE, as it should be.

Being fully PVE geared remains around the same when you transition to PVP.

I think people are over complicating it and over “theory crafting” the implications.

As someone who enjoys both PVE and PVP this allows me to have 2 sets.
Right now I just have a PVP set that I use in PVE, and PVE rewards nothing useful for me because my PVP gear is better or as good. Maybe a slight upgrade, but not enough to motivate me.

Why would I raid normal when I’m full PVP geared? Even in full honor and a few conquest items, the raid doesn’t sound appealing or rewarding.

12 Likes
3

duelist > heroic and m+ valor gear still. First weeks of mythic raiding people who have duelist gonna have better i lvl then who dont. pvp gear not useless in pve still… u guys missing that part.

ofc i like this change too but not enough. PVP boosting still viable for pve players. and even naguraa gonna buy boost for pve again lol.

4

I thought I would like it, but the more I think about it, I dont. Here’s why…

I don’t get enough time to play both, I enjoy PvP more so I PvP. On my warrior and my priest Ive managed to get 220 ilvl, and either of those are viable if I want to do a high Mythic+, I maybe do 1-3 Mythic+ per week at 13+. Sure I have no idea what I’m doing but I do them with friends. So its nice to have the item level to do it. But now I’m going to have to collect 2 sets of gear, or play what I enoy the most and not bother with the Mythic+, and thus reducing my played time further, because I dont get enough time for both and its won’t be worth doing Mythic+ when I dont do them religiously. So its completely cutting off half the game for me.

What they should have done instead was, keep the gear as it is now, but scale item level per MMR bracket, as follows;
0-1399 mmr scales you down to 200 ilvl (players below 200 ilvl remain below)
1400-1599 mmr scales you down to 207 ilvl (players below 207 ilvl remain below)
1600-1799 mmr scales you down to 213 ilvl (players below 213 ilvl remain below)
1800-2099 mmr scales you down to 220 ilvl (players below 220 ilvl remain below)
2100-2399 mmr scales you down to 226 ilvl
(Players below 226 ilvl remain below)
2400+ mmr lets you play above 226 ilvl and players below remain below.

This way players can’t drop mmr and boost with full gear. Theres still an element of meeting lower item level players, but the gap isn’t so huge. Additionally to all this, if you’re below the brackets item level you would get more conquest/honor per item level below the bracket so you can catch up faster. E.g. if you’re 180 ilvl, queueing at 1300 mmr, your item level difference would be 20. 1 item level = 10 conquest/honor, so if you win you get 25 conquest, 100 honor (as standard) plus 200 conquest, if you’re not conquest capped, if you are you get 200 honor instead.

1 Like
5

Isn’t that exactly what a lot of people have been very vocal about ? PvP gear still being somewhat decent in pve but bis in PvP ?

From an absolute casual this seems like a good idea. It feels like PvP has been the best way to gear quickly and that they implemented this change to reduce the dominance of PvP in pve gearing.

2 Likes
6

I absolutely like this change. It makes PvP gear unquestionably BiS in pvp, all the while making it less attractive in PvE. As a result, there will be fewer pve players seeking boosts in pvp because it will be way simpler for them to do heroic raiding and KSM and farm valor to get stuff, and there will be no need whatsoever for a pvp player to do any pve.

3 Likes
7

No, separating PvP and PvE gear will never work, as it has never worked before.

Most wow players do a mixture of both PvE and PvP activities.

Deliberately making set 1 worse than set 2 in a certain activity and vice versa, makes no sense and achieves nothing.

It just forces people to farm and carry multiple sets when there is no reason to do so, because the gear themselves are essentially the same, but are only purposely restricted by this rule.

It will certainly reduce cross/mix PvP/PvE participation and activities. Blizzard feels current subs and MAUs are still too many and wants to drop more.

3 Likes
8

I can’t tell how it pans out, but it’s an understandable choice for blizzard.

Right now the most time effective way to gear is PvP, AND PvP gear is still very useful for PvE (at least for classes that benefit enough from having Versatility).

The gear will still be “good” but it won’t be equal to the Mythic gear of that tier for PvE purposes.

9

It worked fine during WoD and it fixed the issue that has regularly popped up over time where pvpers felt forced to pve or vice versa to have the best gear for their preferred activity. It would always lead to complaints because plenty of people can’t stand pvp or pve and would rather avoid it altogether.

People who enjoy both, will get gear for both naturally by participating in both contents anyway.

5 Likes
10

Going to cause more damage than good, can see it now. Depending on how the scaling works, if pvp gear simply doesn’t scale to a high pve item level it will always be garbage in PVP for the initial few weeks, just like how it was week 1

1 Like
11

Instead of separating PvP/PvE gear, the solution is very simple: merging PvE and PvP currencies.

Current PvP vendor is simply gear vendor, because those gear are not really PvP only, despite their name “aspirant/gladiator”.

They work in both PvE and PvP. That is why PvEers want them. And this is not a problem.

PvEers are forced to do PvP, because PvE contents don’t give currency to buy those gear. That is the real problem.

So, the solution is simple: Let PvE contents also reward the same currency.

If random dungeons/M+/raids also reward honor/conquest, PvEers will not be forced to PvP. They would farm the currency from PvE contents instead of flooding PvP contents which they hate.

PvE and PvP contents should reward the same currency for buying the same gear. And players can choose what content they prefer to do: PvE, PvP, or a mix of both, to gain the same currency.

There is no need to separate PvP/PvE gear. What we need is merging PvP/PvE currencies.

12

I understand your point I think. The issue is, that would only work if all gear was accessible on vendors, and that would complicate the concept as is surrounding raid gear. The times where pvp and pve gear were similar in power, pvpers needed to raid for trinkets for example, because those would be stronger than the pvp trinkets on the vendor. So either items like that could be bought too from a vendor, removing all rng from pve gearing as well in the process, or you run into the problem that these two activities cannot be treated the same way.

If I misunderstood you, correct me obviously!

13

Vendor gear shall not be the only source for PvE players. And dungeons/raids loot table shall never be removed.

The current “pvp” trinkets from vendor are fine even good for pve already.

Those BiS or really OP dungeon/raid trinkets should not be on sale from any vendor. If someone wants them, they still have to do those PvE contents.

Vendor gear should be basic gear with limited choices. They shall never be the BiS PvE gear for every slot.

14

But then the two activities do get treated differently, and pvpers would be forced to pve to be competitive in pvp no doubt :slight_smile:

1 Like
15

There is no reason for that.

With the current PvP trinket +versatile bonus effect, PvE trinkets should never be BiS for PvP.

16

It was an example from previous expansions, and more to illustrate there will always be items in raids that beat the conquest items. This isn’t a big issue for me, I simply enjoy having a fun brawl in random bg haha. But for serious pvpers who want to get high rating this has been an issue repeatedly because some will do everything, including raiding at the highest level, to be as effective as possible in pvp. And that forces other pvpers to do this as well if they care about their ranking.

In that sense completely seperating pvp and pve gear solves that issue fully like with the scaling for 9.1, and as it was during WoD.

2 Likes
17

I understand what you mean.

But if that is the case, 9.1 scaling will not solve the problem. 9.1 simply makes pvp gear -6 in pve against pve gear, and +7 in pvp against pve gear.

If a PvE trinket is really OP, -6/+7 scaling won’t change much. E.g. instead of hit for 20k, the trinket will still hit for 18-19k.

The problem is the trinket design itself.

18

Oh yeah, I agree. And their solution to restrict certain items in pvp and/or not having those items proc in pvp obviously helped. When I look at it I can only imagine the headache it must be to tweak and bandaid it again every time hehe.

I do think a system that allows for fully ignoring ‘the other content’ without being punished for it is the best one. Iirc during WoD the way it worked with scaling the ilvl difference was a bit bigger than 6 ilvls or so, which did make either gear set redundant in any kind of competitive play in the other content.

19

I’m skeptical. As some have already pointed out, this approach has never really worked well in the past. One group of players always ends up feeling put out, and that group has always been those who exclusively play PvP.

PvP gear currently isn’t BIS for the majority of classes and specs in PvE. The issue isn’t that PvP gear is too good in PvE, its that PvE players don’t have reliable access to upgrades for their character. Instead of addressing that issue they’ve ignored it completely and come up with this ridiculous scheme (like they always do) that really only negatively affects the power of PvP players.

Doesn’t sound like a good thing at all.

Give PvE players a vendor already and stop with contrived solutions to simple problems.

2 Likes
20

Exactly. This is the way to go to have an equal ground. Said it before myself.

1 Like