I can relate to that 100% since all I play is Arena 2s. But at least that gear is not INVALID, sure, it has a little more value in the other MODE, but it still ok to have it then not have it at all. The same goes for PvE gear.
Didn’t think about this but…yeah…this is dumb.
RBGs are a joke compared to arenas.
Yeah, honestly it’s much better what we currently have where every single RBG group asks for like 30% versa and classes that already use versa are disproportionally stronger.
Well PvP gear will be a bit weaker in PvE so i guess it will reduce the appeal of doing so to some degree yes.
If the gap were larger between pvp base and “in-pvp” level, then it would be reduced a huge amount, because who is gonna leech honor to get 200ilevel gear?
right now i see ppl just join rated bg groups
ignore leaders strategy and do same as bg players
they only join to get free honor for vault and dont care about the content
apparently pveers?
because 200 ilvl free piece in vault by LOSING is suddenly more rewarding?
without any pvp rating you wont upgrade that single 200 piece
name of those groups is daily WIN but ppl join to not win
I can’t imagine why a PvEr would care about honour and honour alone, as you only get gear worth 197 ilevel from that currently. 197 is like “entry level” at the moment. Unless they’re farming honour because they hold a prior ranking due to being boosted to upgrade their conquest?
I don’t get it, i never will. It makes no sense to me. Most of the benefits in pvp come from winning, so quite why something tyhinks joining a game and contributing nothing “because it;s low effort” is an effective strategy to gear up is beyond me.
It may have worked back in the days where honour was all you needed to get even decent gear, but now you need ranking to get any of weight in pvp, and if you’re not contributing to the game you directly increase the risk of losing the game and losing ranking. Makes no sense.
makes no sense to me either
but i see people just joining to be freeloaders
and why they do this in rated bg
just why and what kind of"player" would join to not even bother playing
dropped from 1607 to 1440 because of dumb mistakes of teams
random road fights going solo against a full enemy team etc not interrupting healers
I mean, we used to have a stat like that, Resilience, but they moved away from that and sort of replaced it with versa at the time if I remember the timeline correctly.
I’m trying to remember the issues with resilience. One was that because with the gear being at a similar ilvl, people could and would queue up for pve content in pvp gear and pvp gear wasn’t itemised that well for pve. Another issue was that the more resilience you had, the sturdier you got really, so matches between opponents with a lot of resilience would take long and people missed more fastpaced and explosive gameplay.
But that’s just from the top of my head (and my brain is a bit of a sieve), I’m sure there were more reasons why they moved away from that model. While I like your idea of the stat impacting things like cc instead, I could foresee issues there with the stat maybe being very useful in pve too, or pvpers who rely on their cc feeling gimped vs classes/specs that rely far less on it and get stronger by such a change as a side effect.
Its reduce numbers of players in PvP by a lot, cuz PvE not forced to do PvP in 9.1. And have zero solved of problems for PvP players - such as big ilvl gap.
1 Like
I agree with this, but I think we’re stuck with “gear matters more than skill” in SL.
BfA was the Warmode expack, and the only way to make that work was to have gear scaling. Faction Assaults and Naz PvP activities would have failed without it.
It was also a very casual-friendly expack. Players who did not want to (or did not have the option to) play end-game group content still had lots of options to increase their character power. Conquest gear was pretty good at base level, WQ / Emissary gear could TF / WF, Benthic gear was upgraded through open-world PvE and had extra bonus effects everyone could use, reasonable quality Essences increased power through open-world quest-line, Vision gear could be obtained through solo-play and BiS Corruptions > gear ilvl. Sure, end-game did provide more powerful “borrowed power” items, but overall the gap was not huge.
SL has taken the opposite approach and has streamed the game into two types of post-Covenant storyline activities: End Game and Casual. Rated PvP and M+ / Raid are what matters if you want power progression beyond base gear. Casual gear progression has been removed and instead replaced by tmog / mount collecting (through anima) and mini-games. There is now no way for a casual player to increase their power level to anything close to end-game player, and that is a deliberate part of SL game design.
In BfA 8.3:
WQ: 415
Emissary: 445
Conquest base: 460
Visions: 470
End-game: 475 / 485
In SL:
WQ: 194
Covenant / Honour: 197
Conquest base: 200
Emissary: 203
World Boss: 207
End-Game: 226 / 233
Given that the squish means SL gear gap = 2/3 BfA gear gap we get:
Skilled Casual to skilled End-Game player in BfA = 10-15 ilvl
Skilled Casual to skilled End-Game player in SL = 25-30 ilvl
So the gear gap is just over twice as large in SL than BfA.
3 Likes
For majority of pvpers its change NOTHING. And still allows BOOSTING so it is an INSULT from blizzard to true pvpers. Im done with them no more sub no more buy anything from you ion hozzilawyer.
2 Likes
Woah, so many responses. Cool!
Interesting discussion, guys.
I guess it’s really a complicated problem, which affects different types of gameplay and types of players, in different proportions. What’s that saying? “For every complex problem, there is always a solution that is simple, clear, and wrong.”
I just don’t see it fixing much, at the cost of reducing cross-over functionality and reward, making the grind longer, almost doubling it. We’ll see.
I don’t see anything complicated, it’s a bs change that fixes half of an issue out of two big issues. They failed. This has to be changed.
Really, they spent three months on this? Counting from the vague mention of “the team is considering returning to WoD-style gear in PVP”. Three months? To come up with this nonsense?
It’s infuriating.
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IIRC there are 3 people on the WoW PvP team, so this brilliant idea took 1 month to process per brain power.
It’s really ridiculous though. In the end this is just a fix for PvE players, if even that. Doesn’t change much for PvPers except for the fact, like Redoctober mentioned, that boosting will probably decline.
2 Likes
The post applies to 5.2, and it’s not necessarily updated to reflect Blizzard’s intentions in 9.1. Still, it was an interesting read.
No its not. PvP gear should be obtained by everyone who does enough grinding in BGs or low rated Arena. Only thing rating should do is give Conquest gear faster.
Also give us back gems and enchants. WoW turned into total mess after MoP since the clueless turds took the reins.
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THERE IS A TOPIC VIEW OF GEAR IN US, DONE BY REVOLOL MULTIRANK 1, THE TOPIC HAVE MORE THEN 500 RESPONSE, I POST HERE FOR EU JUST I CANSE YOU WANT READ THE OPINION OF A REAL IMPORTANT TOPIC FOR PVP…ENJOY
Hey all, I’m sure you’ve all seen/heard about the new changes slated to be implemented in 9.1 for gearing, whether they be positive or not. Stoopzz just released a good video on this as well, but I wanted to make a forum post because this NEEDS to change.
In 9.1 the plan is to reintroduce the gearing system where gear scales to a higher item level in PvP combat, a change most likely aimed at addressing concerns among PvE players that PvP was required or nearly required, especially at the highest levels. This change was pretty much certainly not made in any way to address PvP player concerns.
HOWEVER, not only does this change do very little to alleviate the PvE issues (according to some top end raider friends, PvP will still be desirable for early raid gearing at the highest levels), it also addresses literally NONE of the issues that we PvP players have been complaining about. Since gear will still have ilevel based upon rating, massive rifts are created at rating cutoffs, where you’re forced to play versus players that may have 10-15 or even 20 ilevel on you, making pushing certain ratings extremely difficult (particularly 2.4k).
This change does somewhat alleviate the boosting problem created by those who are getting a boost for PvE purposes, but doesn’t entirely, as people who want the gear for PvP will still want boosts to certain ratings. Additionally, if any player who is 2.4k+ (or 2.1k, or 1.8k) wants to play another bracket, play with a friend, play with viewers from their stream etc. etc. their gear will be massively superior to those they are qing into which just isn’t fun for anyone.
This system is actually arguably worse than the current one - PvP gear won’t be great in PvE past the first week or two (possibly okay, ilevels are not final), and the PvP honor/conquest grind is STILL as bad as it was before unless things are addressed . The honor gear is essentially useless, conquest gear is hard to obtain because of how little you get per game and then you still have to do a tremendous amount of honor grinding to even upgrade your conquest gear and then on top of that, rating is required to get it to the highest ilevel.
Personally, I believe Blizzard’s logic behind limiting conquest gains and adding upgrades to PvP gear that were locked behind rating were systems added to gatekeep the usefulness and obtainability of PvP gear to use in PvE. Adding the ilevel increase that only activates in PvP eliminates this, so there is absolutely no need to keep these systems in place.
In my opinion we need to go back to one set of gear for each “level” of PvP - 1 honor set, 1 conquest set. No upgrades, nothing tied to rating. I also think we need to earn more conquest per game. Making PvP gear less useful in PvE is fine, if you can get gear for PvP via PvP relatively quickly and efficiently. The system in WoD lead to more alt activity, more people being encouraged to try other classes and more players having fun in PvP in general. Any issues with WoD ladder activity were tied to balance alone (and that’s a different story).
The biggest pushback to this that I’ve seen is “What will the reward be then?” Realistically when has gear EVER been "THE NUMBER ONE PvP reward”? Some very old systems valued gear as a reward, but they were removed for the same reasons. The disparity in gear made pushing unfun. We have titles, rating achievements, mounts, etc. that are the reward for doing arena. Arena in the past has primarily been about these rewards and about HAVING FUN PLAYING PVP. Never before has gear been the driving factor to q up.
I think what 99% of people want is an even playing field. That’s the starting point, and that’s what players deserve to have so they can prove their skill.
3 Likes
we all know that this gear changes do nothing for pvp and are basically to reduce it’s effectiveness for mythic raiders (that is all our game troll director cares about).
This change was never intended to make the pvp community happy or address their complaints.
the pvp community wanted 3 things:
- no rating wall
- wod scaling OR pvp stat (so pvp gear is irrelevant in pve)
- pvp gear to be much better than pve gear
of course we also want other stuff like:
-deactivate legendaries (at least don’t allow cross spec leggos)
-conquest catch up
-no pve grind (sockets anyone? Choreghast?)
it isn’t really that difficult but honestly with blizzard it is always a battle for quality of life while they want to suck the MAU out of you.
They lost it with me, haven’t even logged in for a week. GGs
2 Likes
@Whitepanda: Great read. Thanks for quoting this post from the US forums.
I am not a big fan, to say the least, of the 9.1 changes to PvP, either.
@Dezi: Great points. It does seem that Blizz has sometimes the same 1-10% of the playerbase in mind.