Is There Seriously No Gender Option In WOTLK PTR?

[Vanillataur-nethergarde-keep]

yup, but if they’re only flagged they are still there, only you cannot search for them, can you link, please … looking through near on 600 posts for this is a bit over the top

EDIT:
Ahh that kind of weather phenomenon someone sensitive sees that as insulting as bigot or woke even .
I thought you literally wrote “Weather phenomenon” in your text.
And this is, I think, one of those words that auto-bans you if reported, same as a four letter word for sexual intercourse (that had me banned some time ago where I just used it as an expletive).

[Elf-mograine]

@Eredar-razorgore

there’s this “body type” instead of gender I’ve heard and read about, and that it looks distinctly very “retail” from screenshots I’ve seen

they even replace the order of buttons - originally gender buttons were above class buttons. It just feels wrong, for decades you’ve been clicking “dwarf male paladin” and now the sequence is “dwarf paladin male”, it just feels weird.

Also, since it’s “body type”, not “gender”, then it means we’re getting cross-gender transmogs? Like, full-body Robe of Insight on female night elf?

Not to mention the new hairstyles that look very retailish.

But well, they already messed up by adding incubus, everyone remembers classic with the random succubus noises because someone around you had a succubus, and now they added satyr noises.

[Jeynar-ashbringer]

Oops, you’re actually right. Nevermind this post, my bad.

[Elwenil-earthshaker]

Yeh there is deffo something wrong inside Blizzard. I mean we all know that certain things were not good even back in time. Tho now it seems one extreme replaced another. And yet again they(or one) just keep fixing things that none or very small part of community asked for if any. Because to me it looks like someone is not fixing game itself but trying to change world view of every player in game. We are here to play the game not to be somehow directed in game towards any spectrum of political support/affairs or gender/ binary philisophy support or nonsupport. Keep that for your real life guys. Dont masaage people with this stuff in games its getting obvious too much.

[Vanillataur-nethergarde-keep]

The other thread has been deleted as far as I know. I had a bookmarked post there, and it has gone.

[Elf-mograine]

@Elwenil-earthshaker

trying to change world view of every player in game. We are here to play the game not to be somehow directed in game towards any spectrum of political support/affairs or gender/ binary philisophy support or nonsupport. Keep that for your real life guys.

That and don’t make unneeded changes that alter the experience to a game most people play for the nostalgia. Especially considering you can’t revert that with mods. I miss the days when you could put, like, custom music and sounds just like you put addons.

I mean, the game isn’t worse because of that, the new hairstyles look nice, but it doesn’t feel the same as we remember.

[Vanillataur-nethergarde-keep]

@Elf-mograine

they even replace the order of buttons - originally gender buttons were above class buttons. It just feels wrong, for decades you’ve been clicking “dwarf male paladin” and now the sequence is “dwarf paladin male”, it just feels weird.

Eww! More changes! Stop it, already!

[Bob-defias-brotherhood]

@Elwenil-earthshaker

We are here to play the game not to be somehow directed in game towards any spectrum of political support/affairs or gender/ binary philisophy support or nonsupport. Keep that for your real life guys.

This applies to the complaints. This is a small, unobtrusive change to the game that most people, especially new players, would not notice or remark upon.

The people coming and posting at great length about how it’s a problem are the ones bringing real life politics into things.

World of Warcraft takes place in a fantasy universe where people can quickly and easily change sex, turn into a bear, turn into a skeleton, turn into a murloc, etc. Science in WoW obviously doesn’t operate on the same principles as science in real life. Neither do humans, who are are descended from Vrykul, who were magically created out of titan-forged Iron Vrykul through the Curse of Flesh.

It’s absurd to try to hold WoW to standards of ‘realism’ based on real world biology, physics or anything else.

[Elwenil-earthshaker]

Mate its obvious where it comes from. Its not coming out of nothing because last few years this course is set forcefully even in Hollywood and all mainstream streaming services and many other big game companies.
People aredy getting sensitive towards it because as I said its getting too obvious. Like entire cultural word is paying attention towards certain minorities but suddenly like other minorities and their problems do not exist anymore.
I have one more idea why there is not icon on logging screen where you can donate fight against global warming and donate food for those who need it?

[Bob-defias-brotherhood]

@Elwenil-earthshaker

Mate its obvious where it comes from. Its not coming out of nothing because last few years this course is set forcefully even in Hollywood and all mainstream streaming services and many other big game companies.
People aredy getting sensitive towards it because as I said its getting too obvious. Like entire cultural word is paying attention towards certain minorities but suddenly like other minorities and their problems do not exist anymore.
I have one more idea why there is not icon on logging screen where you can donate fight against global warming and donate food for those who need it?

Even specific charities and aid organisations specifically dedicated to e.g. food donations typically do not also try to address global warming, gender issues etc. It’s unreasonable to hold Blizzard to a standard that you’re not holding those charities to.

Do you also go and post on the websites of organisations working on malaria prevention saying that they should be doing more about global warming?

Efforts should be evaluated on their own merits. I and others have said that this change isn’t the best and that it could have been handled much better, but at least it’s something.

[Capedbaldy-darksorrow]

Why is this discussion going on? There is no gender anymore, So its all good and super inclusive! we are all body type 1 and 2 <3

Now i just want them to remove the quest texts. Its not inclusive and i find quite alot of blizzards quests problematic as some quests clearly hint that some NPC’s have a gender. Blizzard decided that Gender is not part of the game, so they should remove it.

The current quests are not inclusive. Blizzards writing in certain quests are highly problematic and dated, SO to be on the safe side i want them to remove each and everyone quest text and leave every quest blank.

Now some of you may complain about it, even more so because there would be no more story in the game for the characters. Just random events…But thats where your mind comes in. Just like you can decide your gender outside the character screen creation (or so some claim) outside of the game…You can also decide the story outside the game yourself, By using your own brain/mind!

This way everyone wins. Those who want a story, can create their own empowering inclusive story, And those who just wants gameplay, can just do the blank text quests by themselves and focus on getting a high parse on warcraft logs. Truly a win for everyone.

A few things i would like to see blizzard to change that would also make the game much more inclusive is below.
i would like to see is them to change Anduin and his title from “King” to “Queen”. I would like him to wear a dress if possible.
I would also like if Thralls wife decided to become the next Warcheif, Thrall should raise his son as a be at home dad, and make sure he dont raise another Garrosh. Well to be fair at this point im not sure if thrall and his wife is even alive, but if she is, she is clearly Warcheif material.

I also find Tauren to be a bit problematic.
Cows in real life create alot of gas that harms the climate, So i would imagine that the Tauren is an issue in this regard aswell. So please patch the Tauren out of the game blizzard.
I think we can replace them with the insect people from pandaria, Afterall we are going towards a future where we dont eat beef in real life, but insect meat instead, so it only makes sense to do something similar ingame…By simply removing the beef.
Patch the beef out and replace it with insects plz.

When levling cooking i think it should be atleast two branches. One for meat type of dishes and one for vegans. Its quite disgusting that vegans are forced to make dishes that contains meat to level their cooking.

Now i think violence is also pretty problematic in the game, but the “murder everything you see” quests has a purpose, so those should stay.

[Bazooqa-golemagg]

This post pretty much sums up the answer and thinking of the people defending this change. Denying basic biology and instead talking about ‘feelings’. You got nothing to back up this change but emotional blackmail.

As a wise man once said: “Facts don’t care about your feelings”

[Bob-defias-brotherhood]

@Bazooqa-golemagg

Denying basic biology

I’m the one citing biological facts and not just using the term “biology” without further elaboration to support my argument.

If you want to talk in terms of real world biology, sex isn’t a simple binary.

If you want to talk in terms of World of Warcraft biology, you’re talking about a fantasy universe where people can quickly and easily change sex, turn into a bear, turn into a skeleton, turn into a murloc, etc. Science in WoW obviously doesn’t operate on the same principles as science in real life. Neither do humans, who are are descended from Vrykul, who were magically created out of titan-forged Iron Vrykul through the Curse of Flesh.

@Bazooqa-golemagg

You got nothing to back up this change but emotional blackmail.

What do you have against it?

@Bazooqa-golemagg

As a wise man once said: “Facts don’t care about your feelings”

Please provide some facts. You appear to be the one having feelings about this at the moment.

[Bazooqa-golemagg]

@Bob-defias-brotherhood

If you want to talk in terms of real world biology, sex isn’t a simple binary.

There’s male and female. Period. With very few unique and rare exceptions. But again: the rare exceptions shouldn’t erase the fact that male and female are the dominant sexes.

@Bob-defias-brotherhood

If you want to talk in terms of World of Warcraft biology, you’re talking about a fantasy universe where people can quickly and easily change sex, turn into a bear, turn into a skeleton, turn into a murloc, etc. Science in WoW obviously doesn’t operate on the same principles as science in real life. Neither do humans, who are are descended from Vrykul, who were magically created out of titan-forged Iron Vrykul through the Curse of Flesh.

You keep saying this. There’s not much I can say. If this is your answer as to why the change is legit, it makes no sense and you know it. Bears also are only male or female.
Humans may have been magically created, but they were created as humans, who still are born male or female 99.99% of the time.
They should have added an option to choose from, not delete basic biology. That’s the problem.

[Bob-defias-brotherhood]

I notice that you haven’t said what you have against the change. Please do so as it’s weird to argue with someone who dislikes someone without them saying why they dislike it.

@Bazooqa-golemagg

There’s male and female. Period. With very few unique and rare exceptions.

If there are exceptions, then it’s not “male and female. period”. You’re contradicting yourself.

@Bazooqa-golemagg

You keep saying this. There’s not much I can say. If this is your answer as to why the change is legit, it makes no sense and you know it. Bears also are only male or female.
Humans may have been magically created, but they were created as humans, who still are born male or female 99.99% of the time.
They should have added an option to choose from, not delete basic biology. That’s the problem.

It’s important to distinguish whether you’re objecting on in-universe grounds or not.

I don’t understand how you can claim they’re “deleting basic biology” when you still have the exact same biological male and biological female options available to you at character creation.

In any case, it seems pretty silly to object on in-universe grounds given how wacky and fantastical the setting of the game is, the fact that we have no in-universe scientific research to refer to on the topic of biology, and the fact that the character creation screen doesn’t exist as a concept in-universe.

It also seems pretty silly to hold the wacky and fantastical setting of the game to any standard of real world scientific realism, though.

So your objection doesn’t seem to be on the grounds of biology at all, but rather on the basis of personal views/politics and a disagreement with the underlying principles that lead Blizzard to make the change.

This is why I want to know what your actual objection is.

[Bazooqa-golemagg]

@Bob-defias-brotherhood

I notice that you haven’t said what you have against the change. Please do so as it’s weird to argue with someone who dislikes someone without them saying why they dislike it.

@Bob-defias-brotherhood

I don’t understand how you can claim they’re “deleting basic biology” when you still have the exact same biological male and biological female options available to you at character creation.

@Bob-defias-brotherhood

This is why I want to know what your actual objection is.

It’s litteraly in my last line. Again, body type 1 and body type 2.
I’m not going to argue about those fantasy things with you, as that’s not what the problem is. You are still only providing purely emotional arguments, and whenever I say something that doesn’t fit yoou narrative, I have to come up with sources, science and whatnot. You seem to be okay with the change because you’re still conviced this is just an innocent little change, but you can’t see this is purely political and opens the door for implementing many other ‘innocent’ changes like pronouns, breastfeeding males and all of that because I shouldn’t care as it is not (affecting me in) real life.

P olit ical changes. And if these are po l iti cal changes, I’ve got all the right to express my frustrations, whether you think it’s silly or not.

[Bob-defias-brotherhood]

@Bazooqa-golemagg

It’s litteraly in my last line. Again, body type 1 and body type 2.

Your last line reads “They should have added an option to choose from, not delete basic biology. That’s the problem.”

I agree with the first part, as have others who are generally in favour of this change if you’ve read the thread(s) about it. What Blizzard are doing with this change is definitely an MVP implementation and they could have gone a lot further and done a lot better.

I disagree with the second part, because, again, you still have the exact same biological male and biological female options available to you at character creation.

Also, they are not called body type 1 and body type 2 ingame. Have you seen them ingame for yourself? The fact that you think they’re numbered leads me to believe that you haven’t seen the change, which makes it a bit weird for you to be objecting to it.

@Bazooqa-golemagg

I’m not going to argue about those fantasy things with you, as that’s not what the problem is.

Good to confirm as I suggested that your problem isn’t internal consistency or realism.

@Bazooqa-golemagg

You are still only providing purely emotional arguments, and whenever I say something that doesn’t fit yoou narrative, I have to come up with sources, science and whatnot

What emotional arguments? What narrative? I’ve simply stated the biological fact that sex is not a simple binary. You have now admitted this is the case and that you were wrong when you said that there are “male and female. Period” so it seems we’re broadly in alignment on that.

@Bazooqa-golemagg

You seem to be okay with the change because you’re still conviced this is just an innocent little change, but you can’t see this is purely political and opens the door for implementing many other ‘innocent’ changes like pronouns, breastfeeding males and all of that because I shouldn’t care as it is not (affecting me in) real life.

P olit ical changes. And if these are po l iti cal changes, I’ve got all the right to express my frustrations, whether you think it’s silly or not.

What’s wrong with pronouns? Where does breastfeeding appear in WoW? This is exactly a feelings-based/emotional argument and not a factual one. You are objecting to imaginary hypotheticals.

[Elf-mograine]

@Bob-defias-brotherhood

This is a small, unobtrusive change to the game that most people, especially new players, would not notice or remark upon.

The change of “gender” into “body type” is. But the change in the order of buttons which we’ve been used to for decades is more impactful. And the new hairstyles and incubus are even more impactful.

[Bob-defias-brotherhood]

@Elf-mograine

The change of “gender” into “body type” is. But the change in the order of buttons which we’ve been used to for decades is more impactful. And the new hairstyles and incubus are even more impactful.

If you’re upset about the order of buttons I don’t know what to say. I pay zero attention to them and I’ve never heard or seen anyone else mention them before. If they moved the buttons underneath the character preview instead of having them to the left I also wouldn’t particularly care and I don’t think most people would care.

The new hairstyles and the incubus are definitely more impactful than a change in ordering of buttons on the character creation screen, yeah, and they seem unambiguously good changes to me. You can use them or not as you prefer.

[Elf-mograine]

@Bob-defias-brotherhood

You can use them or not as you prefer.

You can’t force entire server to not use it, and you will still see others’ characters