Was in IOC yesterday on Horde, used the glider and dragonfruit to get there fast, got there exactly same time as Alliance but we managed to win the first Hangar fight but couldn’t get mid. Fair play to Allies cos they came back and bossed us the 2nd time round at Hangar, whereas most times the opposition just give up. I thought they would claw it back and beat us but we got their gates down first but not by far.
It’s almost impossible to win though, without hangar so when I see us lose that first battle at Hangar, then everybody gives up on it and just goes docks in stead, it makes me want to pull my hair out as the glaives are made of crepe paper.
I would be happy with anything that would even out the odds for either faction.
A terrain change is possible, but I doubt they will put development resources into this, even though such changes did happen in the past. The graveyards in Alterac used to be in slightly different spots than they are now.
A HP increase for glaives is more likely.
It is also entirely possible that they do nothing about the whole situation.
Then you should consider asking for the raid leader and making a few raid warnings to push Hangar from the south like I did in that video. In my experience, the average randomly assigned raid leader does nothing with his abilities as raid leader and also gladly hands it over when asked.
Speaking of people who make you want to pull your hair out, this is the way I feel about the laggards of the horde. Just look how far behind me they all are. Wasting time is a luxury the horde can absolutely not afford on this map and yet so many are doing it. Or they run indecisively towards workshop and then make a turn for hangar, some even don’t go to hangar at all.
I get that it is a casual random epic bg and I don’t expect people to tryhard like their life depended on it, but it is about time that they understood that if they waste time when it matters most, it makes everything else on this map so much harder.
I’m talking about now, since Hangar is the meta of the bg. Since Hangar is a goal especially in DF, the Alliance has a majority of victories. IF we talk about all these years, then things in percentages will obviously change, but if we count from the last changes they made in the bg, right now it is a free win for the Alliance
It’s really not.
I’ve lost the last 5 IoC’s as Alliance.
2 were against premades who melted our gate with Glaives & Ship both times (with some weird Alliance merc spamming a laugh emote the whole game!?) & the other 3 were against better teams. So the more I read about players asking to tip the IoC scales in Horde favour, the more I have to laugh.
Were I to get 70-100% free-wins in IoC, I’d agree changes should be made.
But I’m not, so I don’t.
I tend to win way more often in there on Alliance than Horde… I’ll try a timer sometime from start of each base, I’ll pop dragonfruit on Horde at the bottom of the ramp to hangar and on Alliance I’ll pop dragonfruit at the top of the hill, reckon that’s roughly the same distance. I honestly reckon it’s going to be very close, Horde will still have the disadvantage tho I think, purely because of the bank. More people need to start being aware of and using those dargonfruit tho, also the other one that prevents knockbacks (particularly Horde) for not getting blasted off the hill.
I’d say it’s about 50-50 for me (excluding premades, which tips the scales in Horde favour in my w/l ratio).
I’d suggest running without buffs.
Time a standard mounted speed (no Crusader) from gate to Hangar flag in shortest route possible. My guess is they’re approx the same (maybe 1-2 secs max in favour of Alliance).
I agree with ^Azalex, I think the laggards let many Horde teams down (same with Alliance). In a straight run to the flag via shortest route poss (no buffs), I think the journey time is pretty much the same.
The bottleneck is a huge disadvantage, but mainly it’s the laggards that get caught in it.
I’ll try with no buffs and gliders versus with buffs and gliders, altho I still don’t see any worthwhile place to use a glider from Alliance side, unless climbing the tower and gliding is a thing, guess I’ll have to try that as well.
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Seen people use gliders on the first dip (~15m from East gate), but I don’t think it’s worth it.
Tower to Glider would be a great advantage, but only if you could Lock gate up tower. Climbing the steps takes too long.
It’s good to test diff methods out for a personal advantage, but I don’t think we can accurately measure balance if we take the plethora of buffs into consideration.
**
Do we need full Raid teams to start War Games, or can x number of people just start one …for science?
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Probably, which by itself would mean nothing if in theory everyone arrived at the same time. Nobody would be able to tag the flag and a full battle would have to commence.
But in practice (with unrated randoms) there is always a head and a tail of the group moving, with… let’s say 15 seconds between front runners and those lagging at the back?
It’s the gulch that makes it so easy for the Alliance to encapsulate the flag and clog the Horde route with front runners, cutting off any Horde that is more than 5 seconds behind. Then the middle and tail Alliance later simply have to clean up the Horde front runners like 3 to 1.
(see previous remark about Alliance front runners being able to cut-off Horde laggards, but Horde front runners not being able to cut-off Alliance laggards)
I think some people equate the presence of less Horde, as meaning they have a longer travel time, but it’s the terrain + laggards that’s the main issue, not the travel time by itself.
Obviously any second the Horde does have to travel more than the Alliance intensifies this disadvantage even further, but it’s not the root cause of the problem.
Going the extra mile for a full report, Kuddo’s!
I don’t think the glider advantage for Alliance is that large if you jump down straight at the east gate, just 0,5 seconds. It’s the flex of showing you have 3 gold to burn and motivate your group!
It’s a bit off a trade-off because of the 3 min cooldown. After you take the hanger, you’d usually want to jump down the cliff or the air ship, and use the glider to go wherever you are needed.
Obviously that depends if and how fast you are able to take the hangar. In my case I tend to be one of those guys blocking the middle-bottom gulch, so I usually die or by the time i’m done my cd has expired.
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What about a rework around Refinery and Quarry to balance things out?
For example: if a team has both, the other team’s sieges are disabled.
So if a team turtles hangar you can just get ref+quarry and disable the airship forcing them to come out.
Yeah I don’t think glider on Alliance will have any bearing tbh by the time you have to remount.
Things like knockback from typhoon, traps etc as well as that ice wall will still always give Alliance that small but yet so big advantage.
Might take a while, did 8 EBG yesterday, 2 Trashran and 6 WG, 4 WG one after another, not a sniff of IOC
I just played an IoC as horde and lost for the exact same reason. Later joined another one that was already lost… There is no hope in winning this.
We got absolutely battered in there yesterday, first fight as Horde at Hangar… we got there ever so slightly before alliance but we were 3v7 for heals and inevitably lost that battle and subsequently the game.
A game earlier as Alliance and we lost that one, Horde got there ahead of us and won the battle.
I’ve been trying to time the runs from each base to the area at the top of the hill where both teams tend to clash… so far I 've managed to do it 2x horde and 2x allies and. Leaving from Horde, gliding those few feet then stampeding roar for the group and dragonfruit for myself at the bottom of the hill and the time was 38 seconds.
Leaving from allies, going the direct route that all allies take, no glider, stampede for the group and dragonfruit for myself at the brow of the alliance side hill, it took 38 seconds.
In a nutshell, Horde mentality needs to change regarding the time it takes to get there, they also need to start huddling together from the start, leaving the correct gate in unison so that they can all get up the hill together.
The hill still obviously favours Alliance but Horde simply need to get their finger out, especially specs with mass CC abilities. If you’re a mage, hunter, shaman, monk or whoever can cause commotion with CC, then you also really need to be dragonfruiting up the hill, ice walls and traps and anything you can to stop Horde from being CC’d and blasted down / trapped on the hill
I will try next from Horde with no glider as I honestly don’t think it’s making any difference as you don’t get to glide very far then have to mount up anyway.
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Sure there is. I win there all the time. If your first attack on Hangar fails, try the demolisher push from the south I demonstrated earlier in this thread. It works in most cases. And if that fails too, you can still win with turtle tactics.
its easy to win isle of conquest, its hard to control 40 + people into listening to the tactics though
Alliance always want Hangar at the start, so claim hangar and mid and you will win just by attrition
docks isnt worth the time, just send a rogue or 2 to anti cap the flag to slow the productions of glaives
and to add salt to the wounds, camp the north and west gate after killing a few alliance, and you will spawn trap them in the base, the hangar ship will do the rest.
- ive played on both Alliance and horde, and this tactic is kinda universal to each faction
I play both sides and there’s usually a stark difference at the start, Allies are almost always on the same page, leave by the same gate, take the same route and always get there as a large group. Horde is just terrible, half at one gate, half at the other, arriving in almost single file up the hill. Convincing them to take the side gate and all go hangar together is the problem, there’s almost always someone convincing others to go docks and get the glaives instead.
One things that’s universal though, is whoever loses that first fight at Hangar, they just give up and go glaives and demos. I’m constantly telling them to regroup and attack hangar cos it’s almost pointless otherwise, the turtle tactic is one way but again, trying to get 40 people from Horde to listen and comply is a totally different story most of the time.
I love IOC but it seriously needs some reworking, maybe move the cap spot at Hangar to the middle of the area, between the 2 access roads so there’s no hill bias, it would also prevent the bombing from hangar to ws. Otherwise they have to do something about glaives being almost worthless.
Actually rethinking that, it doesn’t prevent the bombing, just makes it a little harder to defend the demos
im done with isle of conquest i got the " master" achievement and got the tabard and barely queue into it anymore
- i understand your frustration, but like i said controlling 40+ people is the hardest thing in this BG
most people want to just go mid and fight randomly
unfortunately though this is out of anyone’s control, you cant make people do things
glaives should never of been nerfed in my opinion, they were fine before, maybe if they had a slightly longer production, it would be “balanced” but glaives currently deal less than 0.1% gate damage
in comparison a demo or hangar will do between 0.2 - 0.3%