Its time for the Alliance to unite on AV

I agree on that one. They should’ve fixed the backdoors much earlier. But isn’t it fixed now?

Quite too late, now the mindset is formed and the difference in gear too.

Anyone thinking gear was ever going to be equal in Classic PvP have been playing former expansions (not BFA) of refail WoW for too long.

The beauty of Classic PvP is that gear isn’t as decisive as which class wins in rock-paper-scissors though. The talent build matters too ofc.

Your “facts” are based on sophistry, you don’t actually have any “facts” to back up any of your arguments.

You know what a fact is I assume? As you use words like “sophistry”

For lack of understanding, here is the Oxford dictionary definition of the word “fact”

noun. 1A thing that is known or proved to be true. 'So go and see it with your own eyes and discover for yourself if it is an historical fact . ’

Blizzard fixed an exploit that was used from Alliance players to get into AV in large, coordinated groups.

Blizzard didn’t fix (until really recently) several bugs that included: Horde getting rep for killing Balinda while Galvangar died earlier, easy access to Alliance bas skipping sevral elites and a graveyard and the chance to completely skip a bunker.

Explain now how these are not facts.

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Not a bug. It was how it was designed way back then.

They changed it to try and influence player behavior by the Alliance. But yeah, it’s as you said, too little too late for that.

They can still be skipped by running up from underneath the bridge, hope the GY guards doesn’t daze you, then run across the bridge to behind the south DB bunker and then around. It basically sets you in the same path as the ones exploiting the backdoor used, where it’s possible to avoid pulling elites.

Using that way forces you to pass on the bridge though and makes you unable to skip the patrolling elite.

No, it can still be skipped. When the patrol is all the way inside the entrance to the DB north bunker, it’s possible to run in the middle from behind the entrance to the DB south bunker, up to the GY flag. It’s a very, very thin line to avoid pulling elites though.

It’s also possible to run up behind and around the DB north bunker from the end of the bridge, to the entrance and reset the mountaineer pull in the bunker.

I am aware.


DB south you can actually also cap from below, for style points jump onto the candle; turn cam, click flag and cap it from below

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There is obviously something wrong when you play 20 AVs and win one. Something is wrong and it’s clearly not one thing that is wrong, it’s many things. These are things Blizzard should be adressing as a part of them providing an enjoyable gaming experience for their customers.


There are 2 major issues with AV:

  1. The map is horde favoured. I honestly won’t listen to Horde players here claiming it’s not as I’ve played AV on both factions and capping SH GY is almost a guaranteed win since the choke point is too hard to break with no way around. This choke point only favors Horde though to defend SHGY it’s actually harder since Horde have 2 routes to attack it and once they got it only one route to defend it. If you compare that to IBGY when Alliance cap then Horde can keep on flooding it from the starting cave which is literally 10 seconds away compared to the marathon that is Alliance starting cave/SPGY > SHGY. It also doesn’t help that trying to break that choke would be hard even if Alliance had the full team trying but often they will not bother since they don’t want an hour long turtle.

  2. Fast queues - Because of the queue times it generally makes most Alliance players not really try. Players playing for honor want fast games. AFK’ers generally don’t care as long as they leech some honor and rep and rep farmers only care for doing hand ins. You might get 50% of the team wanting to go for the win but that isn’t enough.

TLDR: Alliance will never win many AV’s and it’s down to H/PH mind set although the map advantage does play a part in Horde dominating AV as it allows them to turtle far more easily.


Yes, ignore the events that happened before it, where the Alliance team in every BG where that happens had already shown they were inferior in the PvP in the first clash where they get reinforcements faster, the same way Horde gets reinforcements faster to IBGY.

Of course you can’t break that choke point if you’re losing in what decides the actual BG, which is the PvP.

This is part of the real issue, right there. The overall mindset. It’s inherently different between the two sides, and it always was.

So a simple comparison: Alliance has way more that gives up much faster, so even in the rare events where they make it to IBGY, the struggle overwhelms them, while the Horde being as confident as they tend to be, always keeps trying.

Horde didn’t become known for turtling based on nothing, you know?

While the Alliance never have the full force that never quits. The few times it was tested in the early days after premades having been rightfully hotfixed to death, they lost because they failed at what decides the BG which is the PvP, so because that “confirmed what they already knew”, it ended right then and there.

Alliance just doesn’t have the mindset to win in AV if they aren’t in a full premade.

Which is why it would’ve been better to just remove solo queue as an option from all BGs in Classic, since the ranking system really doesn’t need it and it’s not like it’s impossible for the “solo casual players” to get into premades if more of them are up and running every day for them to get their rep (they can even do rep farming grinds together!).

With everyone queuing as full premades then the Alliance would be able to make sure there’s the mindset, and realm wars would be more fun than this anonymous gigantic xrealm garbage anyway. (It’d still be xrealm, but each side would be limited to only representing the realm the entire team is from. So it’d be X realm vs. Y realm, and so on.)
It’d also prevent bots from ruining ladders, and AFKers would become practically non-existent since both realm reputation would be on the line and they’d be kicked and blacklisted. Even if they can’t be kicked from the BG, they definitely would be kicked after the BG ends and unable to join for the following ones.

Beautiful, right?

If some fun in casual PvP is what some people want, then removing all rep and honor from such “easy option” BGs would be enough where they can solo queue all day every day for as long as they want. No risk of it devaluing anything, and no risk of people wanting to do premade exploits in it either.


This wont help at all, This just will only feed the enemy team by giving them easy wins while there be alliance players thats wants to win the bg struggling.

You will not contribute anything of such action.

You who complains are lossing because of very aweful mindset and underpeforming teamplay or fighting against better players.

The map has fast routes for alliance too get an upperhand on the game.

Yes we need to unite, in voicing out the imbalances of the map layout, as it so clearly favours the horde side.


I’ve just about had it with this nonsense some of you horde players are spewing. This is nothing more than a delusional horde fantasy.

It’s like I would say that you just have an attitude problem when you can’t win a 40 man Ally AV premade with your horde pug. Not even your long-queue-waited pumped up superior horde PvP mentality will overcome that. Because you are facing insurmountable odds, like the alliance are facing now in AV. And that is purely due to the map design.

The Horde vs. Alliance battle in AV is analogous to pistol-whipping a blind kid.

You can try to say that “well it wasn’t so in the past” but guess what? It has nothing to do with the present situation, so don’t even bother going for it.

Take the 1974 Hasbro game Connect Four, for example. Imagine two kids who play it for the first time. Do they know that the starting player can always win by playing the right moves? No.

When the other kid eventually figures out how to win the game, and gets to start each round, would you still say that the losing kid is just a bad sport and isn’t motivated to win? Of course not.

This example throws any claim that because the results have been different in the past, the BG AV is indeed balanced, out of the window. It just makes zero sense.

You may also observe that the losing kid is in fact distressed by the situation, perhaps starting to lose motivation. Would you say afterwards that it was due to the kid’s motivational problems that he wasn’t able to win in the first place, or that his distress is in fact because of the game being rigged against him?..

Why don’t the horde win 95% or more of their WSG and AB games? Maybe you’re not sitting in queues long enough to be PUMPED UP!

You could also argue the exact opposite, that since you are sitting in queues for so long your brain activity is reduced and is actually worse than having instant queues. And not to mention that you get LESS PvP experience than the allys who are constantly fighting in PvP battlegrounds, therefore you should be less experienced and worse PvP players.

Maybe now you understand just how ridiculous that sounds.

Why is it that when we face off in an actually balanced BG like WSG that the horde/alliance win/loss ratio is nearly equal?

And yes… There are attitude problems on the alliance side AV. It has NOTHING to do with being in the Alliance faction, but everything to do with the map itself.

Those attitude problems are the byproduct of a rigged map ONLY, and any claim for it to be otherwise is just delusional.

That is why this skewed win/loss ratio can ONLY be observed in AV and NOT the other battlegrounds.


No idea under what rock you been living. But alliance did cheat av so much in order to get wins and so it got fixed along with other unintended bugs like bypassing the bridge fix which alliance asked for . Even with that fix you can’t win games . Which is funny cause it was one of the main concerns alliance had in av .

Everybody and their grandma seem to “know” whats wrong with av and how awfull it is :stuck_out_tongue:

Blizzard too disconnected from reality to fix anything.

It would take a simple fix of not using cave for ress unless no other home GY are available.

Map problems would be 80% fixed.


While ^ this is also something from burning crusade, the same as the 5-man group limit, it’s something I personally believe is what’ll “fix” AV once and for all.

Anyone remember in December when it was Alliance winning all the time?

Remember in Vanilla when Alliance were winning all the time?

Horde adapted, Alliance did not answer. In true fashion, toys were thrown out of the pram at high velocity.