You’re not completely wrong, at least for Legion. AP grinding (for the most part) was pretty enjoyable. It was only in BFA when it became a total nightmare for players. Running the same islands over and over just so you can level up your heart of Azeroth was soul-killing.
But as I’ve said, and multiple others have, just because you’ve read or heard something, does not mean you have any experience and/or opinion on it. You’re just spouting another person’s opinion.
Sure you can do that, and you could have done that in classic and people did.
You keep complaining about the “god comp” and yet me not being part of the god comp as warlock still managed to find and get invited to groups. Hell I pretty much have a guaranteed spot in any raid group that I qualify to just because I am a warlcok, because the utility my class provides is unique enough to bypass any meta.
If you know what you are doing they are in fact very different from one another, and secondly warlocks are very fun to play what do you mean? This is very subjective, but you are treating it as fact, each class is fun and boring depending on who you ask. I absolutely hate Enhancement shamans, a lot of people find them exciting.
Nope I prety much laid out why each eaxmple was different and you just kep moving the goal post to the point it became as shallow as “These 2 classes share a magic school, therefor they are the same class”.
Just to provide context here. The difference between Legion AP and BfA AP was the catch-up, Legions was a multiplier while BfA subtracted from the total amount. By the end of Legion if you did 1 WQ your artefact was fully unlocked with a a few points into concordance , in BfA at the end if you did a WQ your HoA only got 1 level.
that utility needs one warlock so i don’t know how you can defend this lol. yes you can get into a raid but that means another warlock won’t if warlocks are D tier.
stand still, push buttons , decide a spec considering the amount of buttons you want to push, if you’re a warlock choose between dots or burst , one pet or multiple .aoe or single target which depends heavily on tuning. here, perfect class design summed up for you.
that’s how shallow it is. no difference in gameplay other than rotations and pet situation. like i said if you have any end-game experience in other mmos it’s not hard to understand wow always loses with class design. that’s why people can’t choose mains most of the time. one build per spec doesn’t help either tbh. that’s part of why wow’s class design is flawed. evoker is the only thing that made some sort of difference if you think that’s enough than yeah sure. you won’t see anyone calling evoker similar to other classes because it has a different design.
your examples are all about rotations and class specific spells that works exactly as most spells of the other class. evoker on the other hand is a fresh breath . it’s not a good one but at least it’s different.
Yes and? That one spot could push out a mage, a priest or a evoker. What’s your point?
I have end game experience in WoW, GW2 and ESO. You can even count FF14 because I have raided there as well before dropping that game all together. WoW is miles ahead of any of those games when it comes to class design and combat.
Hmmm interesting, how is it then that I have 5 builds on my demo warlock alone that I change semi regularly based on affixes. Sometimes I want more cleave, others I want more ST, bigger burst windows and less consistent DPS, more CC etc. Dude you have barely touched endgame and are just basing your opinions on what others have told you, that’s why you keep repeating your “god comp” argument without even understanding why it works, much less knowing that a lot of the “god comp” pieces underperform without the full puzzle.
You are the only one that is saying classes are similar my dude.
if you really think wow combat is better than gw2 or wow class design is better than any of these 3 games you should go back and play them again. none of the ESO classes are the same and GW2 , i gave u the perfect example on how class designs should be.
thinking ST/AOE difference is enough is so funny, icy veins show 3 builds for the entire gameplay you probably do small tweaks and call it a different build xD
oh my god stop with this weird assumptions. i have ksm which is literally the 2nd highest achievement that gives a reward for m+ and i don’t care about the titles so i don’t push further. people like you keep doing this to make my opinion look non viable but yours is the one that doesn’t matter because you clearly have zero experience in other mmos you counted . you’d know how actual class design looks like if you played any of them.
i’m not alone but of course i’m the minority on the forums. you don’t see people asking for specs anymore it’s usually ‘‘which caster is better’’ because most of them are the same with instagram filtered gameplay styles.
keep living in this perfect delusion that’s called ‘‘dragonflight is perfect with it’s non-ap grind and amazing class design’’ meanwhile it’s boring ,dull and millenials behind any other modern mmo that’s why they keep reworking on classes and they will have multiple reworks after these ones too. wow players are always so entitled and elitist that you can’t get into an arguement with them. the moment they realise you have a point they push stupid stuff like ‘’ you didn’t grind to 3k’’ yes i didn’t because it’s boring awful pug experience that is the worst out there.
thankfully blizzard doesn’t listen people like you anymore. muting the whole topic i can’T waste any more time to explain to you why you’re wrong here . just keep making fun of me as that’s your only point and will ever be your only point.
Second of all, in the recent Q&A that happened, Ion said they’re not going to be able to please everyone, and they’re going to follow what the majority of players want. So while you may have liked Titanforging and the borrowed power systems (with the phrase itself rapidly becoming the WOW players alternative uttering Macbeth during a performance in the theatre), the majority of the player base didn’t, and that’s why they removed those things.
So if you say you like all those things, that’s fine. I just hope you know that the vast majority of your fellow WOW players completely disagree with you. It’s not about who’s right or wrong. It’s about who’s opinion has more of the community on their side.
If you are getting your builds from Icy veins, then big ooof. Those guides are just garbage. Last time I checked they didn’t even offer the correct stat priorities.
I can guarantee you that I have played those games way more than you and on a way higher level than you.
And it’s a joke. KSM is something that people achieve in 2 weeks time, hell you don’t actually need +15 to get to 2000 score now. I am not trying to downplay your achievement or your skill level, but KSM is zerg content. It’s fine if you are comfortable at that level but don’t act like it’s some milestone and you are now an expert on the game.
I agree that the class halls and campaigns were enjoyable. But this reinforces my initial point: Legion introduced great content that was enjoyable in the moment, but it introduced lame approaches to overall game design - here, with class design.
GW2 is a 10 button spamfest with way too many dodges baked into core abilities.
Sometimes I log in to play my Weaver in SPvP to have fun being an immortal God with 17 dodges.
I’ve also played GW2 since launch. I’m piling up those “anniversary titles”.
But those campaigns are enjoyable even now, a lot of Legions content is enjoyable to this day. The zones, dungeons and raids are still some of the best the game has to offer, and again M+ and Mage Tower. The systems were poor, but a lot of them got fixed (some faster than others).
Also when you say Legion class design do you mean the core class or do you take into account the artefact weapon as part of the class, because some specs had their best iterations in Legion, Aff lock and Arms warrior for example.
I already said in an earlier reply that it all depends on the system actually being fun.
AP CAN be great, but it needs a fun system that supports it. Artifact weapons was such a system imo.
Heart of Azeroth was not as far as I’m concerned.
No. I’m right. Fact.
First? This is your third reply to my post. Did I trigger you?
Second, if you can’t detect a tongue-in-cheek reply, that’s not my problem.
Not true. The vocal minority on social media didn’t like it. The streamers didn’t like it.
You have no clue what the majority likes. Because the majority doesn’t post, doesn’t make videos, doesn’t visit forums. They just play the game.
No they don’t. A vocal minority does. I don’t care.
But I’m right. Factually. So there’s that.
And like you said:
We already know Slapface is just salty because he didn’t like the changes to monks that Legion brought. That’s it. He’s condemning an entire across the board revamp because of 1 class he did not like.
So I’m doing the same, but in reverse. I loved the revamp because I loved what they did with BM.
Can you describe why one worked for you over the other?
For me it was a combination of several things, at first I didn’t like Legions AP but after the catch-up I started to not mind it, the fact we were using lore weapons helped and that I eventually unlocked everything, and finally I found the artefact weapon traits were more fun (gameplay altering than Azerite traits).
BfA AP didn’t work for me because it was way more grindy than Legions, I had to farm the gear slots to empower them, traits weren’t as interesting, no lore value.
This is true for all expansions though.
Dungeons, raids and quests always remain playable after the expansion is over. But going back to old expansions to replay those isn’t what most of us do during a new expansion.
What remained of Legion and kept impacting the game long after it was over was mostly negative.
I mean the whole thing.
Windwalker had the most unique burst mechanic in the game with Tigereye Brew: spending Chi generated up to 20 stacks, and you could consume up to 10 at a time to burst on demand. You could burst with only 7 stacks if you wanted to. It was really unique.
They removed that, and replaced it with Serenity, a copy paste of Avenging Wrath. A generic burst CD.
Mistweavers lost: Touch of Death, their interrupt, Nimble Brew, Chi Brew, Disable, their two stances, Chi as a resource system and all the mechanics tied to it. Nail on the coffin: Soothing Mist became a PASSIVE ability. They destroyed the spec. SL and DF brought back some of these but it’s still not the same.
Fire Mages lost all non-fire spells.
Frost Mages lost all non-frost spells.
Subtlety was redesigned.
Ambush, Hemorrhage and Backstab were removed and replaced with Shadowstrike.
Just…awful decisions across the board.
Not to mention the introduction of Havoc DH.
Ok I never understood this argument. Why does that matter? It’s a cool weapon, who cares who got it and how. I mean how it any different than now when most 2h users were running around with Ashcandur (or whatever it was called).
Because with other weapons, we’re not officially their owners. You can say those weapons were lost when armies and mercenaries raided the placed and kill their previous owner.
With the Ashbringer though, the player character is cemented into the lore as THE wielder of Ashbringer.
Except there are thousands of us.
My issue with Havoc is not that “it’s broken” - balance comes and goes.
My issue is that it was introduced as a 2 button specialization which stole mechanics from already existing classes.
