LFR and time gate

Yes, but it holds no relevance to me how many players participate in LFR, and since you replied to me I assumed you want to reply to my argument, not something I am neither arguing in favor or against.

But is the reply to your argument, before the introduction of the LFR majority of the subscribers did not had a chance to experience the raiding content, and its only logical that those people which now have the chance to experience it thanks to introduction would be because of it for it, and how they outweigh the percentage of the players which are against it. That’s simple logic for you.

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Actually, not only it’s not logical, but it just was disproven exactly 2 posts up from yours. :slight_smile: Read what Sithral said in reply to someone else, “Lfr is basically all you have done so far? 8/8 uldir lfr cleared. Lol?”, and the someone else having said “Just remove LFR cause it’s 1 of the worst features in the game.”

It’s not as simple as it seems, especially in a game where the reward structure is also a factor.

And do you think that the players which are doing only LFR care about those comments ? I don’t think so, their perception of the LFR is that its a real raiding for them. They don’t have the will or time to engage in other difficulties if they aren’t doing them, and without it they wouldn’t experience the raiding.

I don’t know, that’s the whole point. Good luck proving what an arbitrary group of people thinks though. What I can notice is how someone that only did LFR expressed the opinion that LFR is, and I quote, “1 of the worst features in the game”. Is he someone that is representative for a minority, majority? I don’t know. But he does showcase why trying to equate engagement into something with pleasure derived from engaging into something is a really poor approach.

Edit: I would also mention that trying to make an argument by bringing up minorities and majorities is as a rule of thumb a poor thing to do and shows the lack of conviction someone has in their own opinions.

It is fact, here are some stats on MMO Champion from MOP

https: //www.mmo-champion . com/content/3984-armory-stats-siege-of-orgrimmar-progression-blue-tweets-dlc-439

51.2% Killed Garosh in LFR
18.1% Killed Garosh in Flex
13.3% Killed Garosh in Normal
0.8% Killed Garosh in Heroic

BTW remove the spaces after champion and before com to use the link.

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if it was essential for the survival of the game then how come, when the game was at its most played the game didn’t have it? and instead LFR came in when the game was (and still is) on its lower sub numbers?

And how does that relate to how many players like it? And how did you infer that “It is only divisive in so far as a small but very vocal minority of raiders are stuck in the past and it hurts their epeen that others get to see the content as well”? How do you know what the opponents think? How do you count, based on that, the opponents of LFR?

This is the crap you wrote mate, this is what I’m asking you to back up.

It is very obvious from the statistics that people like you are a vocal minority in the game. The drop off rate to Heroic (Old Normal) is less than 1 in 7 WOW players clearing it.

While 1 in 2 WOW players cleared LFR.

It is clear that they certainly like LFR a lot more than raiding.

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You claimed that before. Define people like me. This will be fun.

And? How do you infer how many players like it?

Because it has very high participation levels.

People who derive their in-game epeen from looking down on the content and gear of other players. What is referred to as being elitist.

How do you know they like it? 100% of players level up, can you say 100% like leveling? It’s a stupid argument.

I don’t like locking down content. Gear is a different matter.

I don’t know what is being referred to as being elitist. I only know what elitist means: either someone supporting the rule of society by an elite, which I do not support, or the conscience of being part of an elite, which I am not.

I mean I cleared LFR, Purely because it offers 1k gold and runes worth 4k gold or so. :stuck_out_tongue:
and aside from that its an easy way to gear an alt so yeah.

Blizzard’s rewarding LFR greatly for a reason we all know.

So it is a simple matter that you derive your in game epeen from gear and resent “casuals” getting gear. Lovely.

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Well the leveling is part of the game which is for the players unavoidable. But the LFR is not something which players need to do if they don’t have any interest in the raiding activity, especially now when they have other sources in the game from which they can obtain equally good gear and better. A lot of the players can go directly to the other modes without ever going into the LFR if they don’t like it to. And yet the participation is high for LFR through all those years since its introduction, and higher than that of the other raiding modes. I think how that fact speaks a lot for itself, don’t you think ?

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I don’t have ingame epeen, whatever that means.

No, not really. I am a casual too. I like the game when there is a progression system that has a rough ratio between content difficulty and reward quality.

BTW, why do you make this about me and my personal preferences, instead of trying to make an actual argument for your minorities and majorities, and how you know what others think?

Fair enough, do you think everyone that does island expeditions (avoidable) likes doing island expeditions? Everyone doing warfronts loves doing warfronts, everyone that used to do Ashran loved Ashran, and so on? It doesn’t change how stupid that argument is.

His statistic is from MoP though. :wink: We have no idea if now these proportions aren’t entirely different.

It can just as well speak to how it’s easier. Something that guarantees success is bound to have higher kill ratios that something that doesn’t. Besides, as I told you three times before, I do not contest that LFR is popular. Hell, I don’t even contest that a large number of people (no idea if a minority or majority though) like it, nor that it’s existence in the game cannot be stopped at this point. I contest badly formulated arguments, such as ones that invent with no possible backup minorities and majorities, appeal to populism, or try to attack someone’s character instead of someone’s argument. Basically, what this Ignatious individual keeps doing. He represents, as far as I am concerned, the lowest form of debate possible.

You asked for statistics, I gave you statistics. 51% of players went into LFR in MOP when they didn’t “have to”. The majority of these chose not to raid higher difficulties.

You can only assume that from the participation levels they were getting something they liked out of it, be it gold, gear, runes, or just seeing the raid.

I asked to know how you know how many players like something. That is what you claimed. Not how many players do something. It would be really helpful if you would stop pretending you don’t understand the difference.

I also asked how you knew what opponents of LFR think.

No, I can’t assume anything like that. There are many situations where players contest the content they do.

Island expeditions are not avoidable since Blizzard stated how they offer the best source for azerite points over the week.

Warfronts still offer for a lot of the players some of the best gear in the game, LFR doesn’t. So again this comparison doesn’t work.

Its irrelevant is the content easier and harder. What’s relevant tho is how the players have other options in the game if they hate LFR, they aren’t forced to do it, and they don’t miss on the gear if they don’t do it, and how they have other modes in which they can experience the raiding content to, and how the LFR is for them entirely skippable now and still that the participation in it is high.

I fear we’ve somewhat derailed the topic. Which is the timegating of the wings.

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