Do you not know how to form a group using Group finder? im sure there is a video guide on youtube that will demonstrate it.
Your missing the point. I should not have to do this to do a dungeon. There are a lot of problems around it, and there is a strong preference for a automatic system which is not to much asked at all > equal footing.
You cannot compare the current situation with a LFM/LFG /trade query
Why not? It works fine. you can put together a group in a few mins and head off to the dungeon.
You and i both know why an automated system wont work for mythic+.
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It’s a system that exclude a lot of players, It’s weird that I have to stress this.
It works for other dungeons and even raid, and BG’s. There is no reason why it couldn’t work for mythic.
It doesnt exclude anyone, EVERYONE can sign up to any key.
It works for content that doesnt require coordination to succeed at. there is a reason why there are no auto groupings for Normal and HC/Mythic raid.
They require communication to succeed. Autogrouping is not know for its great communication.
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But what would determine a succesful run then?
- less than 15 wipes?
- Its thursday so all runs are succesful?
- Group comp is made up of all armor types so: succesful run?
I mean, you have to quantify the untimed variant somehow to call it succesful so how would you do that?
Current M+ only has a timer that will tell you if a run is succesful or not, nobody cares if we wiped 25 or 40 times in a +10 key, aslong as it is timed i am happy.
Yes there is room for improvement, but the run itself does count for my score then.
Would completely take over timed M+ runs than since there is more loot from untimed runs than timed runs, killing ''orginal M+ ‘’ instantly. Since the loot is better and faster way to gear.
Simply because back in the day dungeons were way too big and too much options. You havent seen any dungeons or ran dungeons like that since because there simply werent any.
a dungeon having the size of a raid in terms of bosses + area it is all happening isnt great dungeon design.
The game moved on from mega dungeons like BRD, (even tho Mechagon / Tazavesh got marketed like it, but dont come close)
From M0 through M30. There is huge difference, you can’t just say it all require the same level of coordination.
Players would even out on the level they are capable for.
And none’s excluding communication. Problem is having to bugger and beg before finding the team you actually communicate with. This is completely against social standards for a lot of people. We just want to play, but are locked out. For far more than just this reason, in a community very much filtered down to a very specific type of people. All I’m asking is to open it up. People are acting like I want to take it away from them. And they can’t even answer what exactly it is they think they will lose.
Thank you for reasonable response. For now, night.
Keep the whelp in check boys. Good luck and have fun, you need it with these trolls.
So it’s not open because it’s not easy? Actually, from the pov of a company, it’s even better this way because it means you (the customer) should play from the start of the season, which imo is also more fun.
Part of every MMORPG should be the player choice. If people choose not to play with you (not you specifically) then it’s their choice. Sure it’s poop on the receiving end but what about the other way around? You want to do your key in time but now somehow you are forced to carry some low geared guy or a guy who simply keeps failing or just cba even trying? That’s frustrating.
If there was a solo queue for M+, sure, got nothing against it but I definitely don’t wanna be forced to play with someone against my will.
TLDR
The game is “open”, some people just don’t like it because it doesn’t benefit them and they are on the “bad end”.
You still haven’t addressed your issue with making your own group.
You don’t want to “beg” for the invite. While I doubt thats actually beging but for the sake of the argument. Fine. Then create a group yourself because obviously you will not be “begging” for an invite…from yourself?
It won’t work. It “works” for LFR because the raid is ridiculously tuned down.
For any kind of challenging content, with the current state of WoWs designs, it wouldn’t work.
A simple example would be this week’s mythic plus dungeons. I’ve done a relatively “low” key, but my group was 5 melee. I was the healer and I’ve absolutly hated that experience. Narrow rooms, quaking, and luckily we didn’t have the thundering affix on. It was hard, and not the good kind of hard. I didn’t feel rewarded for my performance as a player, I just felt freaking bad every second of this dungeon because It wasn’t meant to played that way.
It’s on us, we shouldn’t have brought 5 melees. Next time we will choose our composition better, and that’s a ssomething you couldn’t do in an automated system.
You get together 5 players that don’t know each other, that can randomly be assigned to each other in a dungeons with small corridors, quaking and a LOT of interrupt to manage, it’s bound to fail with an automated system.
The vast majority (myslef included) of players aren’t great at this game. We are not from these prestigious guilds that can clear 20s within the first week. These players would probably do fine if there was such a system in place.
But right now, I don’t see it working “for the vast majority”. It’s not just about my experience. What if you get 3 ranged dps with a 20+ sec interrupt ? That won’t be enough on some packs.
What if someone leaves ? Would the timer stop ? How would it work ? Everyone on “pause”, not able to do anything and a random guy would just pop in, middle of the dungeons without any possibility of setting up the bear minimum of coordination ?
For M+ to be done successfuly with an automated grouping system, you would have to change most of the core designs of encounters, classes and specs, and of course tune it down so it could be “achieveable” with any sort of players.
That is just not what M+ is about.
Bear with me, I am not an elitist. I am not saying that everyone should just “get gud” to enjoy the game or that M+ has to be protected at all cost from the “casual players”.
I am a casual player, I get to play 10 hours per week tops. If I only have time to do a handful of dungeons, I would be even more unable to progress in M+ if I had no control over my groups.
I just feel that M+ is not the type of content that would fit in a “just queue and play” type of situation.
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A voice of reason. M+ run is not a boss pull which at can be just wiped, reseted and tried again. M+ “pull” starts the moment the startup timer goes 0 and finishes when you are the loot chest.
I’ve made similar proposal some time ago. Timer-less “crawl mode” which would reward 10ilvl lower items than regular m+.
Didn’t receive much of approval. I am really struggling to understand why people are against something which doesn’t affect them whatsoever.
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Doesnt surprise me how you can say M+ is the bet 'invention?
Yes its the biggest of the ‘big three’ … but only for people who have actually set foot in it, and in shadowlands, 50% of characters have only set foot in it. KSM is a very different story.
Sweatie, it’s a game. I don’t have to send the guild tank flowers and chocolates for a bloody m+ run.
Get over yourself.
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Indeed.
As I’ve mentionned, I guess it would work fine with a group of great players. Or people that know the dungeons very well and/or are overgeared for the content they are queing for.
But people that need to progress, that will fail encounters and will actually need to communicate in order to understand what’s wrong and proceed to finish the key, it would defnitly not work.
With the group finder tool, I can ask people before the key start if they are OK with finishing the dungeon, even if we don’t time it. If they say no, I suggest they find another group, so that their time and mine won’t be wasted.
If there was a random dungeon finder for M+, you would loose that control, and a failed timer would mean (in most cases) a dungeon not finished.
That would be the worst thing for casual players to add in the game. We would never have the opportunity to get better. We would just “have to get good” without even playing.
I mean, we kind of already were seeing that in heroics the previous two weeks. In some cases skips were expected from random players put together although the dungeons were just released and most didn’t know anything about them…
It would (even more so) turn this initally “group activity” into a very self centered one. We already have raider.io, and are already judged as a player, based on a group performance (with which we don’t always have control on). That would be cherry on the top and would enable even more toxicity.
To be honest; i am not against it. I am against the statements current M+ is excluding people.
Technically it doesn’t, but it’s not very inviting either.
Sweatie?
Let me guess, long time pugger because ‘you work odd hours yada yada’ which is code for never ever get invited back because awkward.
I feel that “end game” content has never been more accessible.
But in the end, most barriers to this “openess” are player-made. True, Blizzard has incorporated score and other systems that were player-made into the game and are now “officials”.
But, as it is now, the current M+ is still arguably very opened to everyone. At least it’s what I feel.
I get that M+ and other modes that are performance based enables behaviours that can be a huge turn off to some. But again, WoW as such a diversity of content, that every player can find something to do with players that have the same mindset.
But it’s not the game’s responsability to adapt to every player needs.
I work until ten most nights, and on 3 out of 4 weekends. I still have a group that I regularly play with, and I am very luck for that.
I did wonder though, several time, if I should keep playing considering my life constraints. I don’t get to do the content I used to enjoy most (highest difficulty raiding), but I won’t blame the game for that…
If anything, I’m lucky M+ exists and offer that kind of flexibility that raids don’t.
In all mmorpgs this is the norm. Look at ffxiv raiding. Just because a minority partake in it above the auto group finder does that makes it design flawed?
No.
No matter how good group or raid content is, if a player refuses to engage with the game beyond solo content, nothing will change that.
And yes, 25% of the playerbase got KSM in shadowlands (2000 rio) 50% of the playerbase hit +10s (1200) and 75% got +5s (750)
However these numbers include multibotters who are scripted to farm open world, AH bots who farm the auction houses, etc etc.so there is sway on the numbers against KSM as none of these accounts touch that content.
But you cant fix this, no game has a majority in its competitive scenes im afraid its proven most player swho engage with mmorpgs
Do the story and unsub til the next story launch and resub for a month.
Same with ffxiv by yoshis own admission.