Stop saying how the gear from m+ content is the welfare gear for one, I had enough of your bullshi’* with this and I disagree there. DK are for a long time one of the strongest classes in the game, and not just in this xpac. If you don’t like current residuum system than make valid proposal to the Blizzard to improve it.
Even if you pug sometimes the content you are doing it with the teams made based on the raider IO setup, and most of the people which are doing the higher ones based on that got a lot of experience with the mythic + content, got high level of gear already or are playing in the mythic guilds.
Do you actually have a substantive argument against me?
My argument is that Mekkatorque Mythic is still fundamentally Mekkatorque. It’s still the same encounter, i.e. it is still the same characters encountering the same enemy in the same place at the same time in the same story. It’s not a new encounter, it’s just a harder version of the same encounter.
That’s exactly what I mean, and that’s very important.
The driver of WoW’s gameplay is exploration and adventure (optionally with friends), the pacing of which is regulated by gear acquisition, levels, or other rewards. You take that out, and WoW really doesn’t offer anything substantive.
This is of course how you can have millions of players complaining about timegating and 30000 players who complete the hardest content in the same game at the same time. That’s not people being contradictive, that’s caused by the design of the game.
Speaking of which, M+ has the same problem. It’s really hard to feel like your rewards mean anything when you do the exact same encounter in the exact same place at the exact same point of the storyline against the exact same enemy and yet find it harder after upgrading your character by 140 item levels. At that point item levels become a meaningless grind, and that’s why everyone is busy complaining about grinding in a game they’ve been playing for 15 years.
Only when vanilla launched. With first expansion launching there wasn’t much exploration and adventure left.
There is +20% chance of extra piece dropping starting from +11. Gear from lower than +10 has lower ilvl and reflects that the run is easier. What you wan to achieve by nerving gear drops from that? You will punish people for not doing more challenging keys and you won’t make people go “back” to raiding. There will be less incentive to play, some players will be forced to buy +10 runs, some will quit or limit amount of time spent in game.
There are still people farming specific M+ dungeons for specific item and often they have better equipped ilvl than the dungeon drops. Doesn’t look like M+ gives to much to good loot…
That’s straight up not true. As long as there are places yet unseen that you want to see and which feel within reach given reasonableeffort, the adventure there is still ongoing. For almost all players, the adventure of vanilla and tBC never ended. Yes, I just literally told you that content exclusivity added more vitality and longevity to the world - a most controversial opinion these days it seems.
tBC also had a ton of really hard to reach and well hidden content, and it had great zones and a wide variety of dungeons with an equally wide variety of difficulty. Yes, it did have heroic dungeons, which is the start of the fall in a way, and yes the dungeons were very linear, but because they were linear based on wings, it really wasn’t a big issue since people divided dungeons into wings anyway.
These setbacks are such an insignificant amount of content repetition next to what we have now I can easily forgive it. I forgave it then, even though many didn’t and still play classic to this day, but just because I forgave it doesn’t mean I think it was better. At the end of the day though, it’s all a matter of degree - and we’ve gone too far now. Far, far too far.
It’s pretty simple; if you’re doing 10’s or 13’s you’ll get 3-4 (for 10’s) or 4-5 (for 13’s) pieces of 400-425 loot. Considering a dungeon takes about ~20-30 mins per run, you can get a HUGE amount of gear between your party for actually doing very little.
It does give too much gear but I’m not one to complain because more gear makes me happy
I have not gotten curve on my main yet either. However I’ve already outgeared heroic. Gearing up is decided by your luck to warforge/titanforge more than it is about actually doing the content that gives it. I like raiding myself so the raid doesn’t feel stale. It does however feel quite pointless to be doing heroic for me.
Timing and RNG are factors there on what you can get from the mythic dungeons, don’t forget that. So many times people finish dungeons and don’t get anything worthy. Just like they do raids and get 1-2 pieces if they are lucky, so the mythic + adds the additional chance for them to gear up. Even from the weekly cache it can happen often that they get an item for the slot for which they don’t need an upgrade few times in a raw with the RNG.
Even though discovering new zones and path to them is interesting in Classic/vanilla it’s not the end game. Even if this part of the game is fun for you it can’t be placed as equal to a end game system for challenging PvE content.
Also attunement or heroic dungeons of TBC worked and behave as they did because other game elements were in their own respective state. In recent expansions dungeons become dead very quickly due to overall game design and only M+ in Legion managed to make them evergreen.
35-50 mins on average. And it’s not very little - it’s a fast paced, high responsibility PvE end game content. Without M+ this game would be completely worthless now.
Aye I’m aware. Dungeon pools aren’t too massive fortunately and if you have the resources you can pool classes together (e.g. Leather or Intellect runs)
I guess it depends on the groups but most of mine take about 30 mins, give or take a couple. I’m normally just someone who follows calls anyway and will just AoE down whatever I’m told to.
The thing is though; it’s much easier than raiding imo but gives so much more.
Mythic plus is literally the only way for people who don’t already have a group of friends to get into pugs
In like Cata or something, you could grind out some pieces of badge gear but then you were stuck, PUGs wouldnt take you based on items alone, because the gear from Heroics simply wasnt good enough to go into raids with.
Mythic+ allows players who play solo to actually have a shot at grinding out enough gear to be picked up and be able to PUG the current content.
Not everyone has a guild, not everyone wants a guild, if anything i would remove LFR and keep Mythic+, that way you have an even greater need to grind M+ to get into normal pugs making M+ relevant for everyone
I’m perfectly well aware of how it is. What I’m saying is how it is is bad, and that it wasn’t always this way.
Back then it took thousands and thousands of hours to reach the point at which there was no more to explore. Predictably, people would play the game practically for ages, and they never seemed to run out of adventure.
Nowadays it takes a couple of days to see everything the latest patch has to offer, after which it’s just gear grinding for item levels. It’s no wonder people sub for new pieces of content for one month and then quit, causing subscriptions to become “cyclical”, as Blizzard likes to put it. They don’t report sub numbers because people join for a month and then leave, repeatedly. This is not a good thing if the objective is to foster a persistent online social community.
I remember the attunements well. I wouldn’t exactly say I loved it, but what I did like is that gaining gear and doing dungeon content got me into new areas and new dungeons. It was like the game released a piece of content to me every few weeks, but instead of it feeling like content was being released, it felt like I was earning access to the content.
I don’t have a problem with the idea of timewalking and M+ being combined. It’d work just fine under my proposed system as well - there would just be more lockouts you come complete some weeks, just as some raid tiers have more bosses and therefore more loot lockouts as a result, and the dungeons in the event would vary in difficulty and spice the whole thing up as well. Sure, why not. Sounds fun.
You make it sound like my idea and your idea are exclusive to one another, when in reality nothing could be further from the truth.
Wasn’t really commenting on any ideas, just how content repetition is not necessarily boring for everyone. With proper rotation I’d enjoy the hell out of doing previous expansions in increased difficulty and I probably did more dungeons that 2 average people combined in WotLK. It just was fun.
I also am currently enjoying M+ a lot this season now that my specc isn’t absolute crap at it.
Here’s a few things i don’t like about m+. 1 The ninja leaver they uselly leave when they don’t think the rest of the team’s worth their time. I mean if they cannot handle a few wipes they shoulen’t really que for them. And 2 i think if you get to get a loot at the end of the dungeon you’d be able to choose from a few pieces of what your class and your spec could use.
Sorry but that’s hugely wrong. Dpswise, dks have been a trainwreck since wrath, let’s see, unholy was good in throne of thunder, frost was OP for 3 days in hellfire citadel, and frost was great in nighthold and uldir due to mechanics lining up with bos.
Currently raidwise, frost and unholy are some of the worst specs in the game, but hey, we were op on launch so a decade of mediocrity is fine right? Yet warlocks have all 3 specs in the top 10, but dks are the op ones. Give me a break with this.
DK have been together with the monks the most wanted tanks in this expansion mythic + because they have strong self sustain abilities, and on the fights like Ghuun they were among the top classes in the dps
but otherwise no, that’s not how it works.