How does it solves farming? If one of your dungeons drops super trinket people will farm it. If they can do +10 early on then they may even never go into the easy ones. And as it’s a lockout people will do them in one day of the week and get bored for 6 remaining days. Fixed systems aren’t very elastic. And if dungeons will be to much hassle then most of WoW gameplay will be to login for a raid night and then logout until next week. Plus punishing people that can’t play every week.
In Legion at some point I did a lot of CoS and Arcway M+, around 15 runs of each in two weeks just to get that armor two-set at good ilvl. I didn’t had to, it wasn’t a direct upgrade, but it was a fun, a challenge. Your system prevents that, makes the game a weekly check-in list. Similarly in BfA I run now with varying loot spec. I got 2h and 1h agi weapons, agi trinket so I can trade ilvl 400 or lower agi gear in those slots if needed. Your systems lacks replayability so not only I wouldn’t have offspec gear I wouldn’t have the option to play the game when and as much I want. And I would have to leave my guild as so many people left the game that our guild doesn’t have the players to do HC raids any more… and as your dungeon system is so limited then raid gear becomes top priority.
Overtuning is not the same thing as Scepter of the Shifting Sands questline. Dumping an overtuned mode just to artificially raise the ceiling of dungeons won’t matter if people won’t bother with it. Mythic raiders will do it if a “+20” rewards above mythic gear but if not then why bother? Hard content is hard when you play it and judge it as such.
Time changes. Re-releasing Classic, TBC or WoTLK won’t bring back 11 million subscribers. In Classic you will see pre-MC endless BRD lava runs, UBRS Rend Runs, Arena farms and some time after MC or even worse - after ZG release there will very little interest in most end game dungeons. Content will be dead and obsolete. There will be gear BiS lists and zerg strategies for bosses. Times change and not every system from the past will work nowadays.
Back in the day dungeons were problematic too, either because they were too hard at the beginning of the expansion or because they became too easy and kept relevant only through daily quests.
Furthermore I don’t think expecting new dungeons every few months being added is realistic.
It’s fair that people who cannot raid should have an alternate source of loot.
Still it’s not at all a balanced system for a few reasons
Heroic raiding is harder than m10. Providing the group does not massively overgear the content thus allowing a certain amount of carry, having 3 or 4 times the amount of people does increase potential failing sources.
M+ gives loot even for failing as long as you complete the run and also at +10 gives you a huge buff to finish, while raiding rewards only for a kill and there is no “you tried 10 times here’s your nice boost to finish”
M+ is farmable, while heroic raid has a weekly lockout. If you have time, you could do 30-40 runs a week, even if you get loot 1/3 of the time, is still way way more than raiding can provide.
Clearing (even failing) a 10 is a granted 410 item at the end of the week. There is no raiding quest/bonus etc that grants you that.
Until those things gets changes, loot wise M+ is a much better choice than heroic raiding.
I get why Blizz went this way, yet i don’t think is the right choice.
I am not sure you can compare difficulty M+ and raiding. It is just so different. You even mention the potential failing source because of more people. This does not increase your own difficulty, you can not help it. You do not have to play better… it is out of your hands.
You need a +10 key first… It is not that easy to farm it when you fail it every time.
And we are still talking about heroic, not mythic. M+ is already below raid-level.
I disagree: a +10 is no less difficult than many HC bosses. Actually I’d argue is not easier than the first mythic except for the organization of a pug depending on your server.
I also disagree: failing the timer does’t mean failing to complete the run. You still need to kill the required trash and all bosses to get the loot.
This is more a problem, but it would be easy solved by capping loot from a given number of runs per week until is equiparable to HC (I’d say 5 per week?).
Which is roughly equivalent of doing a mythic raid boss per week, which is content-wise not any more difficult. The only reason it’s not as easily doable is the completely artificial restriction of single server groups only until the hall of fame gets filled.
I think m+ should reward a lot of gear, but I don’t think it should be awesome gear. Just remove titanforging completely from the game or m+ at the very least and put a cap on it and then have +10’s drop something like -5 ilvl hc loot.
Same for M+. I may be awesome and not make any mistake and still wipe and fail because one of my team member screw up. The more the people, the more the chances to fail, and this regardless the mechanic, it’s just a matter of numbers.
If you can’t get to a 10 key in a easy week, you’re likely a carry on heroic.
Loot wise M+ is pair with heroic raiding, same ilvl, and better with the weekly cache which is a guaranteed 410. (excluding all WF/TF since they’re random).
It’s not difficult per se in therms of mechanics, it’s more difficult because as i wrote before, more people more chances to fail.
Trash do not respawn, with enough time you could focus on one each pass and reach the target at some point. Boss is the same as raiding, except on a +10 if you keep failing, you get a 20% damage and healing buff which is huge.
Even with tyrannical, M+ issues comes from trash affix, not from the bosses.
It will cause an uproar and also, greatly tamper with the farming plan Blizz had in mind for M+ which in no mistery is aimed on longer subs by the promised of a fat tf item.
Not really, no. My guild is trying on mythic and so far, we got the first boss and we can do it with a clean kill. We’re struggling on the second because it’s enough for a couple of people to make a mistake on one of the mechanics to wipe.
This while we have no issue on clearing +10 either in or off timer. A good chunck of the rading team is regularly pushing 12/13 keys.
Clearly, it’s not the same difficulty.
I was talking about the first mythic boss: the second is already quite a jump in difficulty. This is not even something new: Taloc Mythic was the same as were most legion first raid bosses.
A +10 is roughly equivalent in difficulty as the first 3-5 HC raid bosses and the first mythic raid boss, so from the point of view of the difficulty it’s not unfair for it to give equivalent loot.
Or, alternatively, the first few HC raid bosses / first M boss are undertuned compared to the ilvl they drop, but this is another huge can of worms…
I think a lot of you are missing the point here.
M+ has way more e-sport potential than raiding so Blizzard tries to boost participation by increasing M+ loot.
It not about the most difficult content rewarding the best gear any more, WoW stopped being that game a long time ago, it’s about which content makes Blizz more money by transitioning into e-sport.
except no it doesnt. Mythic+25 key and 2.9k+ PvP is much more harder than mythic raiding so shhh and dont bully people about participating when you dont participate yourself.
What does PvP have to do with PvE sources of gear utilised in PvE scenarios?
PvP gearing is ruined, but that’s not the title or the content of the post now, is it? Did you see PvP mentioned anywhere during the initial post? No, the comparison is between M+ and raids.
I’m not sure what you’re saying about the keystone system but about e-sport, raiding generates views during world firsts but I don’t see it ever being an e-sport just because of the amount of players involved.
Even method didn’t manage to get all their members in the same room for the world first race, some dudes were still playing at home.
The format isn’t e-sport friendly.
I don’t know why people need to bring the PvP in every single thread about the PvE content, makes no sense.
And @Bukachu write a letter ( or give feedback ) to the Blizzard about this and tell them how you want from the mythic dungeons higher loot than the one which drops in the mythic raiding. I’m genuinely curious how its response would look like and how your request would be accepted within the raiding community….
