Nobody but you forces yourself to do it
In my view PVP should be about skill not gear they should have kept templates.
But you do for small guilds and friends though who no intrest in mythic raids or PVP .
Well personally I feel what is needed for PvP is to bring back WOD style loot. Gear that scales in PvP but which is comparable to the heroic raid outside of it.
This was very satisfactory for PvP in WOD, and I know I did an awful lot of PvP because of it as my guild of 8 years had just broken up and I didn’t feel much like raiding with strangers after that long of not having to.
PvP should have PvP gear. Even someone clearing the Mythic raid in PvE should not be competitive in PvP without PvP gear, at least within reason.
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You have a few decent points there, I will grant you that.
However a better system might be the following:
- Leave ordinary M+ as is.
- You can loot each dungeon once per week on +15 or higher for a chance at 415 gear (note if this chance was like the raid it would be about 8/1). Also realistically only a tiny amount of people will be able to do all or any at that level early in a season.
- You get a 420 chest if you do a +15.
This will not really affect world first races ect. and would actually help guilds to progress in the mythic raid. If they keep the optimal stats for the mythic raid then something like that could work.
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Small guilds that don’t raid or PvP are minorities. Minority shouldn’t decide about majority - that’s how democracy works. Nobody would take the opportunity to play M+ for them. They won’t be able to get better gear than they deserve for.
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Source on that please ?
Who said you are the majority source please ?
You havent got a clue about politics if thats what you think .
who are you to decide who gets what ? such drivel.
Most guilds don’t have a full raid team. It is one thing I have noticed since I came back to WOW. Lots of guilds with lots of people in them, but most of those only interested in M+ and barely any interest in raiding.
Guilds that don’t raid at all might be a minority, but at even Normal, Heroic or Mythic level, excluding LFR you are certainly looking at a minority of players, even if it is a large minority who actually raid at all.
Any guilds clearing heroic that I talked with and or applied to wanted me to commit to mythic, which I couldn’t do due to RL. And the rest are under pressure to fill any type of team without pugging.
I’m in a guild now with loads of players who don’t show up for raid night. But a group of us do M+ together and that is our current content.
Well the normal raiders which don’t want to get now into the heroic raiding aren’t interested much in the first place for the raiding I would say. The true mythic raiders I haven’t seen much even in the past doing the heroic raids in an organized groups, they have their own difficulty for raiding. And with how the systems work now with them doing both mythic raiding and m+ dungeons there is not much interest for them to run the heroic raids anyways, unless they have a lot of the free time and want to join the groups of their friends.
WF/TF can always be fixed if its causing issues in the game, by decreasing the chances for it to happen further in some content if there is to much of it happening or by placing the cap on it for how much it can forge to.
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As far as I know and I learned during my politology studies democracy was invented in ancient Greece and that’s how it always worked. Majority of people who are allowed to vote was deciding about important things but maybe my professors were wrong…
You can judge the majority and minority with websites like wowprogress, warcraftlogs etc. You won’t be 100% accurate because Blizzard doesn’t show official numbers of subs but you can check the tendency of what activities are people doing.
And yes they don’t deserve it because they are not able to finish other content that provides people with the same ilvl so they shouldn’t get such ilvl “for free”.
And if you are so cocky and such authority in this case why is your profile hidden? Are you that salty guy that is not able to clear heroic but basically finishes +10 every week (not in time ofc) and 90% of your gear comes from M+? Obviously you are defending the only source of gear you are capable to play.
Totally agree TF/WF is a problem.
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Maybe it’s just a server thing as in mine 90% guilds are just raiding. There are few PvP guilds and few casual ones but they are not even doing M+ 10 so I don’t count them.
I hardly call doing a 10 free espically when there is people like you in groups with your toxic eltish attitude to who deserve’s what .
so ironic its laughable ,iam not the one going around telling people what they deserve 
As I said a lot of guilds raid, but to fill out a full roster at least from what I have seen appears to be very hard.
There are a lot of guilds with massive competitive rosters that can clear heroic, but who really want to be mythic guilds, but never will be, but they have the requirements of attendance of a mythic guild. At the end of the day these guild usually end up bleeding players to further progressed guilds and fail to ever come near CE.
Then you have the more casual ones, and they tend to get the less skilled and have terrible difficulty clearing anything.
There are very few guilds with a roster of skilled casual players out there, which is what I want personally. I can’t commit to hardcore, I would love to raid heroic properly, but end up pugging the various bosses where I can. So far I have only pugged 5/9 heroic, but one of those is curve so I just need to fill in the others.
From what I see cross realm with no raid lock, while it has loads of good points (I remember trying to make deadmines groups levelling back in BC taking over an hour) has killed off a lot of guilds. You can now cherry pick the boss that has your loot, kill, then leave. This is actually quite prevalent on Mechatorque on normal, people come in in Mythic gear just for a chance at mount but leave before blockade.
So yeah, M+ with a requirement of only 5 people is IMO very important to what is left of the social fabric of the game.
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Classic argument - “I’m too bad to finish +10 because I have no clue how to play my class but whenever someone points it to me I’ll defend myself with toxicity argument”.
I wasn’t toxic - you started whole toxicity with your “clickbait/troll” accusation if you remember so please spare this hypocrisy for someone else. If you’re not even doing M+10 then you aren’t even 390 so gear shouldn’t even matter to you. You can literally get the same gear from world quests that don’t require you to even think.
Funny enough ive just started doing mythic+ so that point is moot of yours.
I just find it ironic you want to punish smaller groups yet your focus is arena .
Maybe you should focus on asking what most arena players truely want is vendors and better gearing options dont blame mythic plus just because Ion refuses to give PvP vendors.
It’s a bit sad. On my server “casual raiding guild” is one with 3/9 mythic progress. My old guild got their raiding group disbanded because it was stuck on Opulence and they wanted progress so they got divided between different guilds and most of them are on Mekkatorque or Blockade now.
I’m curious how do I want to “punish” smaller groups with making loot system fair. Currently loot system is “punishing” raiders and PvP players because they are forced to play M+ as much as other content to be competitive. Your smaller groups are currently favoured over other players. Do you think it’s fair?
I do honestly believe you are hitting wrong system.
Like you say and i understand you,you want to compete at high level PvP.
That reward system needs a complete rework but dont harm PVE players at same time.
Im sorry we got off on wrong foot my fault but im truely tired of people atm bashing rewards for players.
TF/WF needs capping.
PvP needs rework.
Mythic plus is fine imho.
Mythic raiders if WF/TF capped would have best gear .
In most cases they still have the best gear in the game, since they are getting highest pieces of gear in their content at a base level, besides that they are gearing faster than anyone else and with having the good gear on disposal earlier than the other players have the better chance to push progress earlier than the others in the high m+ content to.
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I agree with everything you say except mythic + because if we will increase drops from other sources we will get full gear in the middle of the patch what’s not healthy either. In my opinion the problem with mythic + gearing is the fact it offers too much gear but this gear is too random. Getting less gear but more targetable one (you can farm certain dungs for desired pieces) is in my opinion better and similar to old WoW systems.
It’s not necessarily true about bis gear from mythic raids. Depends of spec or class. For example my friend who is holy paladin gets only 2 bis pieces from BoD.
Remove TF/WF and gearing whould be fairly balanced. But then some people whould stop do dungeons eventually, which is a loss of renevue for blizzard and it will be harder to find groups for many players. The end game whould then feel more stale compared to the more dynamic system which TF/WF provides.
On a side note thou, the value of the chest at the end of the week whould feel more impactful being 10 ilvls above mythic+ at all times. Gearing up whould also have a “end station”, with fairly accurate BiS lists. Aswell as more raid pieces whould end up on the final BiS-list again, making mythic raiding and high rated PvP the pinnacle of gearing once more. Many players whould probably prefer the classic no TF/WF system ofcourse in combination with reliable sockets either static ones or craftable ones.
I mean it’s hard to find a compromise which please everyone and I think that’s why we see such high amount of drops and TF/WF are still in place. Since It provides some more dynamic overall.
If you read my post again I said - make M+ gear scale to 415 with runs but up to +15 nor +10. So if I count properly +10 would still give 400 ilvl and +15 415. So you only need to “git gud” to get ilvl. However I’d like every M+ to drop gear once a week. By this I mean that you can get loot from Freehold once but then you can farm Atal’Dazar. Basically in the similar fashion as loot works from M0. M+ can drop azerite pieces then as if raid content can when it’s weekly loot why M+ can’t. So actually there will be less useless gear but more chances to target pieces you want. Do you still think that you actually lose by this change?
About TF/WF it provides frustration as getting bis TF piece to get an upgrade is a very small chance but you still have to go for it to have anything to do. in the game at the end of patch. People will always try to get every single bis part and they will farm bis pieces. In old WoW you could get BiS gear. Stop farming gear and actually “play” the game. Right now we have more gear but more rng as well. So there are plenty of pieces you disenchant right away but less pieces you are actually willing to wear because they have good stats. Unless you are “pleb” who has no knowledge and wears everything that has higher ilvl.