No one is forcing raiders to do M+ save for themselves. However when anything BiS or nice is available outside a raid raiders always have to get mad about it and complain.
Why should everything always have to be in a raid. And BiS is still the mythic raid anyway.
most PvE BiS Are from PvP lol
Same thing works for PvP. I have to get shoulders from Blockade and head for Residuum. My BiS shield is raid one while weapon is Underrot mace. It’s ridiculus I have to play PvE to be competitive in PvP.
The way how top players are gearing their chars is that they make M+ armor type runs. For example all plate or all leather (with mail and cloth they just take random tank) and they try to drop pieces hoping for TF/WF and they share them. That’s why M+ is a bit broken in terms of gearing as you can repeat them multiple times a day.
Haven’t PvP’d in a years, but if that is the case it isn’t a good thing either. When I did I always liked separation of the two into distinct gear sets.
Blizzard thinks it’s not fun to separate them unfortunately…
yeah PvP was at its best when it had its own gear and pve had its own gear
I guess having game developers instead of lawers to develop games is a good idea after all
Do you watch Q&As mate? People ask for separate gear and vendors since Legion’s release but nobody listens. Their arguments make no sense. It’s another thing from category you think you do but you don’t. Do you think that if I didn’t need to play M+ I would care about them?
How rewarding will it feel when you get 3 415 belts in a row now, especially when you start doing higher, more challenging keys?
The people I my guild that just raidlog (some haven’t done a single M+ this season, others so their weekly +10 and that’s it) have the same ilvl as the people that spam M+ all day. (Some are even higher)[quote=“Bukachu-ravencrest, post:25, topic:42837”]
no, M+ is popular because it’s a never ending content, it never ends, and everyone and their grandparents like pushing keys to a degree.
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Indeed, I don’t do M+ hoping for a TF anymore, I do it because it is challenging content that doesn’t require 20 people.[quote=“Brodanyo-burning-legion, post:26, topic:42837”]
The ilvl cap should be similar to PvP and raids so highest ilvl possible should be rewarded with +15 and then it will be fair.
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So you tell me the first few bosses on hc/mythic are harder than a +10? :D[quote=“Brianboru-outland, post:27, topic:42837”]
I also don’t see the point in putting in all the effort it takes to get CE or +20
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2 raids a week is more than enough to get CE. For some people it’s fun to do challenging content and not just faceroll HC and +10s.
We clear HC the first week it’s out, what are we supposed to do? Run the same raid for 6 months?
I’d have no problem if +15 awarded 410 gear and a 420 or even 425 reward chest. However I don’t think the 410 reward chest or the 400 (+chance of TF/WF) should be nerfed.
As for TF it rewards people who keep running so I don’t see that as being a bad thing. I kept running WM until I got my Balefire branch on TF. I may not have bothered at all if this wasn’t a possibility.
For those who say that TF/WF forces you to run over and over, well it keeps content alive. And as for raiding chasing BiS is something that should be nice if you get it, but shouldn’t be necessary to clear a raid. I know some people have OCD about getting BiS, but that is OCD and not mandatory to complete something.
The 10 chest if i read your comment right should come max at 400 and no tf/wf i agree and 415 for a 15 would be good with a tw/wf proc as it needs to have a gap .
I just wish they removed TW/WF and bring back an upgrade system like jp/vp were you can upgrade either 2 or 4 slots so for example
you get a 400 piece you have 2 slots to upgrade to 410 or 4 slots to upgrade to 420 seems better.
(excuse me if i read wrong)
No you picked that up wrong, I think the weekly +10 chest should be 410ilev. And if you do a +15 420ilev.
I unlike a lot of a people have no problem with WF/TF, I think it is nice when you get it.
I know JP would also be an acceptable alternative system. However I don’t want to have to grind JP the same way I have had to grind that neck.
And yeah RNG can be good and bad. I got my third wepon this week from a 410 chest. As useful as an ashtray on a motorbike. But if you play enough it works out eventually.
Ok sorry for getting that wrong i did day a pre emp sorry 
Anything that ups the bg gear from 360 Im up for it
Agreed, there should be something decent for BGs, like at least on a par with M0.
If it wasn’t for Mythic + I’d still have some really terrible gear in some slots, Dazor drops for me are so freakin rare it’s not even funny.
Some of the itemization is terrible too so I rely on Mythic + as well for those items.
If anything it eases the load on relying on raid drops which right now may seem like a bad thing but when you look at what drops in Dazor you should be grateful Mythic + offers half decent rewards at all.
Edit, that’s not too say that the op’s idea of improving bg drops isn’t valid either…just leave mythic + drops alone…
That is true .it forces me to play pve content to stay competitive . All I am interested really is in pvp content .
I don’t agree. M+ itemization is broken - you can farm it and with armor type runs you can get geared in 1 week. You only need to get Azerites from different sources. PvP will be probably the easiest for 100% sure azerites while Raid and Warfront can grant you with higher ilvl. If you get a bit help from your friends you can get 400 ilvl in 1 week thanks to M+. They should make every source equal so people like me won’t be forced to play M+.
Check two top/pro level elemental shamans that compete in AWC. They also farm M+ because they need it to be competitive:
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/outland/Swapxy
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/kazzak/Zeep%C3%BD
Almost half of their gear is from M+ xD
Also I see that many people don’t know what BiS means. BiS is an item with the best stata or the best trinket. Guess what - besides Opulence trinket that is situational guess what trinkets are the best?
PvP ones but getting 415 for random raider/M+ player is barely possible unless he gets Titanforge (but pvp drops are already that rare that getting more than 5 items from just playing takes probably few weeks) or gets 2400 rating in any bracket which is not likely. Then you have M+ trinkets. Guess what’s easier? Getting 2400 rating or farming Tol Dagor +10 with friends who have caster spec?
That’s not an issue though, it’s a solution found by the players and they do it by playing content in the game.
The issue there is the fact pvp offers sub par rewards not that Mythic + offers better rewards.
I get that you think it needs to change to suit your preferred content which is PvP but for the love of all that is good in the world stop. PvP changes have had enough negative impact on PvE over the years and another one will just create more issues.
Fix PvP rewards by all means aim for that push for it but leave other content out of the discussion.
If anything had bad impact on something else is PvE having bad influence on PvP. That’s the fact. Also M+ rewards are dumb and the current system is pushing you to farm M+ in every free moment because higher M+ you finish weekly more residuum you get and guess what. Residuum is the best source of 415 ilvl azerite pieces. Btw just take a look at my character. The fact that I’m forced to play M+ as a PvP player made me have better PvE progress than you even though I only play PvE for BiS items in PvP. I only go for Heroic raid and 1 Mythic boss weekly to get azerites that I can scrap for Residuum and guess what I have more rio rating than you even though M+ isn’t my main source of gameplay. I do it only for rewards and I’m not really enjoying it. Sometimes few runs might be fun but overall if I couldn’t play PvP in this game I would unsub as M+ isn’t fun enough for me. I was pushed to get higher progress than you if I want to be competitive. Do you think it’s fine?
I don’t understand why they can’t make BG gear in ilvl between 370-385 to be on par with normal raiding and then cap gear 400-415 instead of 385-400 like it’s now. People will have 415 azerites and other pieces from Residuum farming and M+ why PvP players can’t get highest ilvl rewards at least at the end of season to give equal chances to every player. With such ilvl upgrade in PvP you’ll be able to catch up as PvP player at the end of season if you joined a month before season ended.
M+ isn’t as easy to farm as that though, you have to have the right key for the dungeon you want to get gear from. If you don’t have the key you are dependent on pugging that key and getting into certain high demand dungeons early on in the season is very competitive.
Unless you are in a large guild with lots of people who are serious about doing 10+ or higher keys and who coordinate those keys with players who need gear from dungeon X, Y, or Z, then you could be in for a wait. And an even longer one if you are looking for TF BiS.
Secondly if M+ wasn’t in game, only those doing the Mythic Raid and clearing lots of bosses would be BiS or near it for PvP. So if you would prefer to have to do the Mythic raid to be competitive then by all means continue to look for a nerf on M+. If not then lobby for PvP gear to be brought back along with vendors and weekly rewards for winning your 10 matches.
Edit: I will also add it was easy to farm over the last week, the season is more or less over, even the mythic raid is “over” in the sense it has been cleared by all the top guilds and gone cross realm. So less people are queuing up for M+ and it is far easier to get into groups.