well - MDI qualification runds have been done this time on 22-24 level.
so technicaly - yeah - its kinda base level for MDI 
And our city’s sport complex’s swimming pool meets the Olympic standards so absolutely everyone who goes to swim there are preparing to compete in the Olympics right?
You know what I am talking about so stop playing dumb. MDI people do those runs with an absolutely different mindset and goals versus your average random +22-+23 level pug.
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We had someone run ahead before people were ready on a +25. I just saw the guy that ran first made it past and jumped off and waited for him to get inside and then I respawned there, rest of the group was just standing there “omg?? come back”. Like, bro. Jump off. But no, they insisted on killing the dragon instead of jumping off when someone made it past. If they had instajumped, we would’ve saved a lot of time instead of people arguing and then running back to kill it, lol.
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Keep telling you peeps, they use the “timer is dead” as an excuse, it is close to never the reason.
Many see errors and misstakes done as a waste of their time. Sure, I too agree many of those are annoying. But not “Screeeeeeeew you guys, I am going home” levels of outrageous. The amount of bricks thrown to end a +2 to +25 is a lot, and I would ballpark that 80% of abandoned keys were completely salvageable. All that is needed to be done is focus up and shut your trap. No /p flamewar, just push your rotation and you will time the key.
Sadly, as is, the community perception and stance is that leaving is to be seen as acceptable. As such, the community suffers from the norm of people leaving for no real reason. The excuse has been baked into the mentality of the playerbase.
Leaving a key is fine, keys do die, the problem is how the decision is done.
High skill players can know if a key is dead, based on experience and actual logical deduction based on current group performance. Basically, the whole group knows, and it is just a casual ‘Welp, we tried’ or ‘Go again’.
Mid skill players know of reasons why a key could be dead, they have some experience and their logic is at least not only emotionally based. They are the type of players who stay in for that bit extra, then get happily surprised when the key is indeed timed.
Then you got the lower-floor. The ones who lack experience and ability to analyse what is actually going on. They act emotionally and defend it with their abstract logic. All based on if they are having a good time or not. If they are pumping on the meters, they will stay - as they are having fun. Someone beat them? Well, suddenly something is clearly wrong and key is dead on the first wipe…
As the lower-floor of players push up later in the season, and the better players push further on. If you are a midplayer, you will encounter an increase of these “Key is dead!” or ragequit offline players. It is what it is. This is why you should push for making leaving less accepted, not fight for the top 1% who already have no problems ending a key that fails to achieve goal completion. You are not fighting a fight to make the world more comfortable for yourself, you are simply throwing more water into the mud you want to build your house upon.
if you want to push and do +25 in pugs instead in premade guild groups ?
ye you aare the only one at fault if your keys break .
those key levels were never meat to be pugged.
its akin to people doing dark souls “naked” runs . theroeticaly possible but nobody sane plays this way and devs didnt create the game to be played this way .
I fail to see your point, in relation to mine. Being a high or low-floor player is not based on a PuG or premade enviroment. The problem itself exsists within PuGs, premades and guildgroups alike. Only that the treshhold for ragequiting is higher in a guild group and a lot higher still in a premade.
When a key fails, it is really never one guys fault, it is more often than not a bunch of reactive factors creating the scenario where one person seems to be the sole reason. The weakest link breaks first, but, it is the mounting pressure of mistakes that caused it to snap in the first place. In strong enough of a link, where teamwork is solid, don’t think a single chain, but chainmail.
So I agree, to your point of a premade (chainmail), being a lot more failure proof than a PuG (single link of chains).
I don’t see how it got much to do with the mentality state problem as a whole.
Of course it can be.
I was going to do a 20 TOTT on my balance druid for vault. We couldn’t get past the 3rd boss, because tank was perma floor POV, he died as soon as the totem came out.
Meanwhile, when I tank it on a 20 on my paladin my health bar barely moves in comparison to that tanks health bar.
I am certain there was no way for externals to help, nor advice that could be given to ease the scenario in question. /s
I have more than once in ToT explained the tank what to do, to fix the situation, during the run. Even step by step CD usage.
If you ragequit and say “Floor PoV tank! Dead key!” Well, I am sorry to say, you are just as much at fault.
You could just admit that sometimes it is one persons fault. No need to double down - its not a weakness to hold your hands up occasionally and say you got it wrong.
Also, the person you quoted never said they rage quit, they could have stayed for 10 wipes and seen the tank just wasn’t capable. I had that with a tank in EB on the council boss, they just couldn’t do it. I tried to talk them through it and they said their mind doesn’t work like that and they just panic and start mashing buttons. I’m not holding it against them but it absolutely was one persons fault we couldn’t progress.
We were holy priest, balance druid, warrior & hunter. What externals do we have that will stop the tank from floor POV as soon as the totem comes out? Guy died from full hp in 2 seconds. Guardian spirit from the priest certainly won’t stop him from dying, it will proc and then he’ll still die because that damage isn’t healable. Shout certainly won’t stop him from dying.
Did you even attempt giving him advice on how to handle it?
And yes, Guardian Spirit should stop him from instantly flopping. Shout will do very little, sure, but it will be a buffer. Hunter could do nothing, balance druid as far as I know got nothing but weak healing potential.
So, as you were the experienced tank, did you try to help him with advice?
It doesn’t help jack all when you take that much damage. He took 1.4 milion damage in 2 seconds. Guardian spirit isn’t going to make him stay alive. That damage output isn’t healable.
Nah, when they attack things piecemeal just to attack. I play their game, it requires two to rumble after all.
You been on the forum for long enough to know how it works. They don’t engage with my point, but take a sliver of a word to twist context, I will just go back in kind. It will last a little while, and we both leave with a smile having done some forum playfighting.
What tank did he play?
As you know Paladin, he likely did not play that, perhaps all of you were inexperienced and noone knew nothing that could help.
That is fair, but an issue overall.
VDH. I don’t play DH at all, never had one at max level, so I can’t tell him what to do.
Fair, and I do not expect you to. But, I also argue if the group was experienced, you would suggest how to save and stagger his CDs, to make sure to have meta up for the first totem, make sure to save demon spikes.
That is what I mean by it is not that player alone that failed, the team in itself lacked the experience to salvage the situation. It was salvageable. Well, most likely, perhaps the tank got 1 shot in meta and spikes up, but then - you wouldn’t have gotten to that boss in the first place.
I mean its elahri you’re engaging with, they aren’t attacking, they are just literal beyond what is normally reasonable.
But in this case you said something that was objectively wrong and that doesn’t compute to them. Go back to your playfighting but facts are facts…
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I’d have told them to leave the dungeon and talent in Last Resort, then come back into the dungeon.
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And I would retort with, did not engage with the content of the post, just a focused point they can directly attack - to bring up, as a “got ya!”
Neither of us can say if Elahri is just very literal minded, but I prefer to reasonably think they are within normality. So when you say it doesn’t get computed, I believe, that it indeed was and, indeed, then seen as a link to attack to break the argument structure apart. All without facing the strength of the chainmail as a whole.
You know, as well as I, this is likely the fact of the matter. Most humans are far from stupid. This way of trying to brush away someones points, is a pretty standard tactic. Wouldn’t you agree?
It’s a 20. You shouldn’t be having to teach people how to play their class(and one you don’t play at that) on a basic level in a max reward key.
You’re certainly not going to see me trying to play resto druid in a 20 key, I don’t know resto druid and I’m gonna pretty much grief the key if I play resto in a 20 key. I can do them as a feral druid, balance druid or guardian druid but resto druid? No.
It doesn’t one shot. The boss gets 100% increased attack speed and he deals nature damage in addition to the physical damage. He dishes out an insane amount of damage in a short time when the totem goes up because of his attack speed. You either press defensives or you die, no externals will save you if you don’t press anything yourself.
We wiped 5 times before the healer bailed, stating he can be done with another key before we kill the boss.