Go to bed : it is later.
1 Like
The person that will never take advice is now giving it?
The irony.
And to think that I had also spent energy to answer you previously.
My bad.
1 Like
Yea, you should use that energy to recognise and follow good advice instead of using it crying.
Fake sincerity, how fashionable.
The point of avoidance isn’t so that you can stand in ‘dangerous zones’, as you put it. It’s to reduce the damage you take from unavoidable AOE. Things like the pulsing damage from the adds on the last boss of Vortex Pinnacle. You don’t have enough defensives to have something up for every add, so the healer just has to heal through the damage. Avoidance on your gear makes that a little easier for them.
Noted and understood.
Just have to change some Enchants, but I gave up on actually finding gear that suit my needs ingame …
All good, np.
All good, np. Glad to know the tips were appreciated.
Who is Jerry giving good advice?
Who are you to say he’s giving good advice?
You are lucky that there is no moderation in this forum otherwise you would have already been banned because trolls like you, who only post with the intention of flaming, get banned immediately in other forums
Do yourself a favor: stop talking and consume less oxygen :you would definitely look better.
1 Like
If you want some good advice, I can give you some:
As GM/RL of a CE/occasional HoF guild, there are two very different types of people you come across.
1 - Somebody who blames every mistake on somebody else, every issue on anybody but themselves. They will blame their class, their UI, their team mates, basically anybody except looking at themself. These players never improve. They are never the better players, and will always stagnate.
2 - Somebody who is very self critical, seeks self improvement, always takes responsibility and accountability, and will take blame for mistakes sometimes they didn’t even really make. These are the people who actually improve, who find active ways of solving problems and getting better. These are always the absolute best players, and the ones people like to be around.
If you want to complain and blame everybody and everything except looking at ways you can fix your own problems, then feel free. But you will absolutely never improve doing this.
4 Likes
Conjectures and preconceptions that represent your modus operandi
There would also be a third group of users such as those who speak in dogmas and that the content of their statements cannot possibly be questioned.
Usually these people suffer from omnipotence, they argue with generic speeches that make “scene” and in which their degree of toxicity manages to attract and involve other people with the same degree of toxicity.
If a person doesn’t fully agree with your statements, it doesn’t mean they don’t want to learn but simply that they don’t marry your ideas.
At the same time whoever lacks objectivity has no critical sense and if a specific problem is common knowledge, generalizes with cynicism, arrogance, certainly has nothing to teach.
Feel free to teach because at best you’ll be able to pique the interest of some novices.
Anyway,the purpose of opening this thread was to hear the opinion of other Hunters as well.
Perhaps with arguments of a technical nature without any kind of subjective interpretation.
Don’t you think it’s time to listen to the comments of other Hunters too?
Also because it makes no sense to write numerous posts where our differences of thought are exposed.
1 Like
Maybe the most ironic thing I have ever read. Congrats for a truly hilarious post.
Of course when you have no arguments available to challenge the reasoning you attack the reasoner.
Gl Bro
At some point I have to step back and be like ‘This person is so insanely lost it’s probably better I step back and let them make a fool of themselves even further’.
You have outdone yourself with this post. 
There are no limits to nonsense and human delirium.
1 Like
Youre proof of this.
1 Like
This part is mostly about community perception. Essentially, if your class isn’t “meta”, this is likely the reality for you, even if you’re not a hunter. There are only a few ways to get around this.
- Wait for our class to become “meta”, see changes made to the point where those making the groups feel like they must bring a hunter.
- Make your own groups, inviting new PuGs for any keys you do.
- Form a steady, “permanent” team to run keys with. Doesn’t have to be in your guild.
The first option isn’t really worth waiting for as it’s extremely unlikely to happen. And even if so happens, you might still not see frequent invites to PuGs.
Such posts may have some objective truth to them, but it may just as well be the case that those who create them, they’ve just had some recent bad experiences with players who play X class and they want to vent.
In short, our defensive situation, our survivability in e.g. group-based content has increased quite a bit since SL.
You’d be surprised.
In the PuG world, expect anything really. Even in organized groups/teams, mistakes happen. They’re usually easily solved. Community perception isn’t…
I agree that they need to look how to solve some issues with pets, and pet pathing/general AI stuff. More specifically, how it’s handled in certain encounters.
Usually, the issues of players dying, or the feeling that X class needs more healing, it often comes down to the individuals who play. Had this been SL, I would agree. But, again, they’ve done quite a few things to solve the issues we had when it came to our survivability.
Nothing will make up for ignoring mechanics or intentionally taking damage that can be avoided though.
Our biggest issues aren’t towards survivability in general. It’s more specific towards certain talents/talent design, how we generally have fewer options to explore than most other classes/specs. How certain talents are still not functionally adequate.
I could touch on suggestions for how to make, for example, BM more interesting, in terms of what choices for sub-themes, etc., that we could have. This, however, is more subjective.
Again, community perception is what it is, and it’s not always “in touch” with the current reality. It’s quite common for perception to be based on past realities.
It protects against certain mechanics, not all. It doesn’t protect against mechanics which are intentionally designed to bypass such defensives, nor against certain ground-based AoE/mechanics. And since it’s not designed in the same way or for the same exact purpose as Ice Block, or DS, it won’t clear any DoTs already on you, only reduce the damage you take from those. Typically though, such DoTs don’t kill you unless the damage they deal is combined with other mechanics, or you’re not healing yourself/getting healed much at all.
Aside from that, can you name some mechanics that you’re not protected from, which are guaranteed to kill you, and are unavoidable?
If you mean Exhil and/or FotB, they’re not designed to save you from anything and everything. They’re meant as an additional aid to keep you alive a little longer in situations where the healer is busy/under pressure from other things. It’s not meant to cover for the idea that you can start to ignore mechanics or incoming damage. Literally, if you ever take a hit from a mechanic which you could’ve avoided, that’s on you as the player.
Ofc you can use defensives/heals to recover from taking avoidable damage as well, and usually, you can afford to do so. Having said that, if you use your defensives for those situations, you have less left to manage unavoidable stuff.
With some planning, it’s not too much of an annoyance to deal with.
By definition, that then is on the player(s) to improve if they want to go up the ranks/difficulty levels any further.
That’s how it works for everyone in this game. Complete a key in time and it gets upgraded. Deplete it and you/your team has to work back up to it.
The game isn’t designed to require you/your entire team to use only overpowered classes/specs in order to reach for example +22s. In the PuG world, however, community perception usually dictates that it is more likely for the run to be successful if you bring classes/specs which are unusually strong, or “meta”, or have certain utility/useful buffs, regardless of the player behind the class/spec.
If you don’t want to deal with the perception of the PuG world, there’s really only one way around that. Don’t PuG higher keys. Find a steady group/team to do them with.
If your complaint about hunter defensives, our lack of survivability is based on an adequate use of said defensives, what mechanics or scenarios do you think show that hunters in particular are below the threshold of minimum required survivability to manage higher keys?
I touched on this in my previous reply as well:
In general, people who have a negative experience are more prone to raise issue with it, regardless of the underlying cause or state. In short, just because you’ve talked to, or seen many players bring up how they have an issue with something, that doesn’t automatically make it a true state, an objective truth.
Sry for the multi-quoting, but it’s all relevant to the topic of AotT.
In short, no, AotT isn’t better at protecting your character directly, than for example Ice Block for mages. However, for the sake of the dungeon, and your group’s overall survivability, there are certainly situations, like the one Jerby mentioned, where Turtle is far superior to Ice Block.
It entirely depends on what type of scenario you base your evaluation on, how you apply the term “defensive CD”.
Your definition of “universal” isn’t by any means objective. So far, it’s your personal anecdotal observations from interactions with other players/posters. Someone else could come on and say that “everyone they talked to say that hunters are so easy to keep alive” or “my hunter always has something for every situation”, and that would hold up just as much as what you’re saying in regards to determining our level of survivability.
Like I said earlier, typically, those who are happy/don’t have an issue with something, in this case - our survivability, they won’t come on here to talk about it. People are prone to bring up what they have an issue with, objective or otherwise.
If you make a comparison between a hunter and a priest, in terms of who is better equipped to deal with low but steady amounts of incoming unavoidable damage, it’s not really one worth making. The priest is a hybrid class, and as such, should have more tools to deal with low-intensivity damage than a pure dps class.
2 Likes
This is extremely true.
People still think BM hunter scales best with stats because it did 4 years ago.
People still think fire mage scales better as the expansion goes on because it did 10 years ago.
People still think feral/ele/x spec is terrible because it was years ago.
People still think hunter is terrible defensively because it was 2 years ago.
Just how it is unfortunately.
Completely true also. As somebody who is super interested in psychology, this idea is the exact reason you see insane negative reviews on just about anything.
And this is exactly what this guy is doing, but fails to see it.
1 Like
So, according to your reasoning, a class is Meta or not based on the perception that one has of that class?
Did I get it right?
I’ve already answered this.
A viable route but not easy to achieve
But if you find this information from several sources, do you think they are all bad experiences?
That is, if a phenomenon is widespread, are we able to say that it’s a personal problem anyway?
Can you explain better in what sense?
Again, can you contextualize better?
Yet the damages of Df are significantly higher than those of Sl.
Just to understand.
Is the gap between Meta class vs no Meta class the result of community perception?
The first examples that come to mind are Uldaman’s Boss Talondra terrigen scale debuff and the third boss of Nl’s poisons debuff.
Given the disproportionate damage in high keys, it makes little difference
I have never talked about avoidable mechanics but about situations in which defensive cds don’t hold up.
And I can give you some examples:
in Neltharus 22+ Tyrannical at the boss of the forge, can you manage 5 rounds of “Might of the Forge” ?
Or in HOI 22+ can you manage 7 spins of “Static Surge” and 7 spins of “Power Overload”?
I agree with you but in pug?
It is not possible to know when the Tank starts combat
No offense.
Try doing 22+ with the Hunter and then you tell me.
It’s easy to talk about if you don’t have experience with it and by definition.
Yes, it works like this, otherwise you wouldn’t make the keys.
But if you allow me just a little reflection : Meta classes would have access everywhere rather than being with a nonMeta class that has to do everything itself.
Yet I wrote it several times.
We were speaking in terms of pure survival and not of utility for the group.
It also depends on the level of key that the person has dealt with.
Most likely, if you talk to a Hunter who has done 15+ he will surely tell you that defensive cds are adequate but if you ask another who has done 22+ upwards, he will be able to answer you differently…
I can personally tell you that until 20+ I didn’t have any major problems.
Very true, but it’s equally true many people who complain in the game and don’t post in this forum.
Even if we disagree on some points, I want to thank you for your contribution and highlighting the fact that although you do not agree with me, you have expressed it in a polite, calm and civil manner.
For me this is an exchange of ideas, regardless of who is right or wrong. 
+26 tyrannical forgemaster. Took 6 rounds of might of the forge. Took 0 externals, just good use of his own defensives. This was the first log I looked at. Now bare in mind that a +22 is going to deal something like ~20-30% less damage than a +26.
+25 tyran static surge. Took 0 externals (Both went on the SP). 8 surges. First log I looked at.
No opinions here, just actual in game data. I look forward to your attempt at somehow pretending this is worth less than your anecdotes.
2 Likes
Do you think I didn’t know Hunters make 25-26+ keys?
When I wrote :“can you manage 5 rounds of “Might of the Forge” ?” I didn’t mean in an absolute sense.
Sure, with an excellent premade and a healer that you don’t usually find in Pug, anything can be done.
But I meant something else…
Let it go.