this is the same guy btw
I simply asked by /w the group leader, politely, “May I know why you rejected me ?”.
The system message is different whether the group is full, your candidature expired or it was rejected.
I have no shame anymore, but I want to get better. That last point is almost impossible if I cannot actually play even after reading hundreds of pages of guides and watching dozens of hours of tutorials.
And the Beast Master … isn’t.
My MM guildmate (and friend of over 25 years) is at iLVL 418 and totally and constantly outperforms me at iLVL 435, and it’s him that thaught me almost everything.
Ok, he lucked out and got that “Beacon of the Beyond” and managed to get crits of over 4 millions damage against a tighly packed group in a +4 keystone, but even before he started gearing up with his 4-pieces S1 Tier Set at iLVL 415, he still had an amazing alpha strike and damage numbers about 40% higher than mine with a S2 4-pieces Tier Set at iLVL 435.
During S1, it’s only when I myself lucked out and got an Heroic Neltharax (pre-nerf) in the weekly “World Quests” special quest that I manage to close the gap, and he was still ahead.
Beast Masters, Marksmen and Survivalists are totally different, to the point of not being comparable.
You asked for help. Stop rewriting history and lying.
And you were given a specific example of what you could do, it wasn’t “PeRfOrM bEtTeR”, it was try to improve your uptime. As I’ve said before, you need to take what was given at face value, it was advice, it wasn’t an attempt to belittle you.
BM is in a fine position right now relative to the other 2 hunter specs, especially in m+ which is what you are alluding to. MM is one of the worst m+ specs in the game right now, with BM being pretty average overall.
A +4 keystone is just not representative of anything really, these mobs have literally no HP. Again, this is not supposed to be personal at all, but if you are 17 ilevels above somebody and doing way less damage, there is a big gameplay gap somewhere there. As always, if you have logs I am more than happy to look over and help.
You’re not necessarily getting the real answer. The answer is more likely that they’re looking for someone with higher ilvl or higher score because they want to get carried.
You avoid or pretend to analyze the whole context and why a situation has occurred.
You Comment and criticize only what pleases you most.
The important thing for you is to answer, no matter how and the way.
Well, I know that a +4 is not representative, I also know that my own personnal health and mental issues combined with still needing to learn things about some of the current M+ rotation are my biggest problems.
I’m not complaining about the damage I can do with my Beast Master, there are lots of things I could improve, but I’m satisfied on that front.
I’m a bit irked by the (relatively) long cooldowns of my Personnal Defensives and the rather low amount of healing done by Exhilaration combined with the need to spend tons of Focus to reduce it’s cooldown, but again, when I’ll have learned about better positionning myself, I should not have to use either Defensives or Self Healing unless the incoming damage in unavoidable, and even then I’ve already seen a big difference with some advice from this thread about my Enchants.
My point, precisely, was that a Marksman is an alpha strike nuker than will struggle the longer the fight lasts, while my Beast Master is a marathonian that starts slower but reach a consistent, satisfying damage the longer the fight lasts.
I cannot really comment on the Survivalist, since I absolutely loathe that gameplay and I cannot force myself to learn to play it.
So, in short, the three specs are extremely different and should not be compared.
BM vs BM is a good base.
MM vs BM is apples vs coconuts.
I’ve specifically made all my logs on Warcraft Log Companion, RIO and Wowhead public by default (except when I forget to toggle the recording), I have nothing to hide and much to learn.
I actually enjoy my Beast Master, despite still needing to learn, what I don’t enjoy is the PUGhell with preconcieved notions and death by teammate because “mechanics are for noobs, just do damage”, the most frequent answer I get when I say before the keystone is slotted in that I’m still learning.
This morning I lucked out and got with a nice PUG with people that actually knew what to do, were willing to teach me some things, took the couple of minutes to discuss (by text chat, even !) who will dispel/interrupt what, the route we would take, and more (really, I timed that chat, 4 minutes), and we timed with a +2 bonus both BH +13 and HOI +14, only 5 seconds short of the +3 on both because we took the time to refresh mana.
A single wipe in BH because we bit too much than we could chew when going up the “full of trees path” just because of a body-pull at the worst place, and a single death (mine, grr) in HOI because I did not get the timing of the water waves right after being teleported back to the end of the hallway against the final boss.
I’ll gladly take any and all advice I can get, YT tutos and guides are not enough for me, mostly because I have to deal with random teammates rather than premade and coordinated groups.
Not a single way to know if the answer is genuine, is there ?
Then again, all my gear is currently at the max possible update, and I cannot go further either in gear or score without getting in higher keystones.
But I followed the advice of “list your own keys, find communities, choose people with main/alts with a high score that look like they know what they do”, and it definitively works !
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Not entirely sure what you mean here.
If the community perception is that the hunter class is not meta, or lacks in certain critical areas, whether that is in terms of damage, utility, etc., the short answer is that it will be hard for you to get invited to random PuGs. I said this before but, fair or not, that’s how it often is with PuGing in general.
And again, whether the state of our class is actually that bad or not, that doesn’t necessarily align with the perception of the community. Typically, if a class have had its issues for some time, even when certain issues are fixed, it will take more time for the perception of the community to adjust accordingly.
Again, many of the issues pertaining to our survivability, or a lack thereof, much of it stems from periods before DF, where hunters were indeed behind, survivability-wise. Like Jerby said earlier, some aspects of how a class is perceived, they can take years to move past.
Having said that, while our survivability is fairly decent relative to several other classes, our throughput in some regards isn’t all that impressive. Nor do we bring anything particularly sought after by groups in general. We do bring lust, so for groups where they have no other options for that, we can justify a spot. We can also provide some niche utility with AotT, such as in the case Jerby mentioned with Underrot.
You can bring a hunter to higher keys, and you will be able to complete them in time. But since we’re not meta, don’t bring anything critical and unique to our class, for the group, in general…it will be harder to get accepted to PuGs as a hunter.
Is it an RP server? Otherwise, you should be able to find players outside of your realm to team up with.
In some connected realms it’s easier than others, for sure.
Like I said, it’s not up to us to decide what number of posts or complaints is enough to warrant making changes. And again, the devs have a multitude of tools to evaluate the performance/durability of all classes and specs, in all types of content. Tools AND data to come with which we simply don’t have access to.
I mentioned this in a previous reply, the devs often rework elements within a class, or even entire classes/specs, not necessarily due to performance issues but often due to problems regarding gameplay, how it feels to play.
Each ability/defensive, judged within a vaccum, isn’t meant to be the answer to everything. They create our defensives and utility based on what scenarios they want us to make use of them all/either of them. And, they design them based on the idea that what they provide for us should be combined with what’s provided by for example a healer, their group/raid defensives, etc.
In short, it’s expected that your rotation of defensives should be combined with a healer/other party members, rotating in their defensives as well, as needed. In higher keys, it’s not expected for a dps to rely solely on a single defensive(outside of immunities) to handle major mechanics, without simultaneously benefitting from cooldowns and plain healing from healers or other team members as well.
This last part does depend on the encounter ofc, exactly what is used, and when.
It’s fairly long yes, though, not your only defensive.
I certainly don’t. Again, I expect the entire group to work together to manage all their defensives and CDs properly. All classes, and their respective toolkits aren’t created equal on all ends. Defensive capabilities is one example of this.
To a certain point, you can bring whatever setup/comp you want, and you will manage to complete the keys you do. But the very basic nature, and goal of M+ is that, if you want to reach the absolute top, there will always be the best options for how to accomplish that.
The more variables you add in, including ones that can have a negative impact on what you can do or not, it will affect how high you can reach when talking M+. The fact that you base this on doing high level M+ keys with random PuGs with no particular focus on coordination, on managing things as a team, relative to the coordinated groups with proper planning and communication, this will result in how you can’t go as high. It will result in you having more trouble staying alive in upper mid-level keys.
Again, the more factors which can negatively impact you, that you add in, the lower the cap will be for how high you can go, difficulty wise.
I can’t say for sure as I wasn’t there, nor am I an expert at evaluating logs.
I know you dislike Jerby, but post logs of those times where you die to such mechanics and I’m sure that he(or maybe someone else here?) can figure out what can be done to survive them. In case you haven’t already done this. Whether that has to do with better management of your personals, or whether it has something to do with your healer, or other team members, etc.
At the very least, it can be figured out what the issue is, considering how it is in fact possible to survive those mechanics, even for us hunters.
Yep, understandable. Again, that’s a downside with doing M+ keys with uncoordinated PuG groups.
Yep. The sad truth here, though, is that this still isn’t a “defensive issue”. If you manage your personals perfectly, but you still die as a result of playing with an “average” healer who might not be playing as well, that is still an issue on the player(not necessarily on you specifically) side of things. Not on the class(es) itself/themselves, their design.
If you talk to someone who complains about their defensives when doing for example a +22, whether the issues are due to an actual problem with the class, most often it can’t be determined by the results of a single run.
Again, just because you’ve spoken to some players on a forum, or ingame, just because they say that there’s a problem with the class, that doesn’t automatically make what they’re saying true.
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Yep, this is the biggest reason as to why I never PuG. PuGs aren’t always fair, or go by sound logic. PuGs, and often players in general, will go for the easier solution, what [they think] can make the run easier to complete.
It’s more likely to have positive experiences with premades of coordinated groups with proper communication and planning, that’s for sure. Ofc it requires more work, and might take some time to accomplish finding people to make such groups, but if you ask me, it will always be worth it long term.
PuG life just ain’t worth it in my book.
I think this is a post worth framing.
Your way of writing, of explaining concepts and the way you convey them, are very incisive and reflect competence, preparation and why not… even wisdom
Thank you very much for your time and dedication in writing.
You are a true enthusiast and of the old guard. 
Mind your own business. On a log for the first time playing the boss there could be all manner of reasons THAT YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND. Crawl back into your little hole again.
This isn’t your personal playground where you get to decide who replies to what.
My point stands.
You might want to evaluate how you react to constructive criticism too.
Not yours either, constantly coming here and commenting on things you scarcely understand, ie, the current state of hunters. You and your friend up there, you behave like his annoying chihuahua. trying to silence anyone who doesn’t agree with your blinkered position. Hunters are in a dreadful state terribly and are being blatantly neglected.
Link where I’ve tried to silence you? Weird that you accuse me of doing exactly what you’re doing.
And why do you pretend like I don’t understand? I play a hunter too, the difference is I don’t blame my shortcomings on the class, unlike you.
“Shortcomings” 
Whatever mate, I’m not even here to discuss my personal play. If I wanted any guidance or information I’d go to Trueshot Lodge not some randoms on the EU forum. I’m here to discuss aspects of the game that are not functioning correctly, and you keep yapping incessantly.
In your opinion. I’m entitled to disagree, thats what a discussion forum is for.
If you can’t take that, then go somewhere else.
It’s not helping to progress this discussion, ie, hunters are underperforming, especially from my perspective in M+, but generally, and Blizzard are doing nothing. Now kindly do one, you return every time I post like a bad smell.
Luckily its only once a month or so then since you’re erm, on vacation so much.
Also, again, why are you trying to silence me? It’s what you accused me of. Irony much?
And this discussion will never progress because you won’t even contemplate other viewpoints.