Honestly i have no problem with the hunter class, i know some good ones and i like to play with them, but pugs? NO. I have a rule in this season never invite PUG hunters or mages, both can preform well but most of the randoms will **** hard. Kinda sad and hard to find BL whiteout them but i dont want to see some clowns on my keys.
I was tempted to laugh after this but, despite my efforts, I couldn’t…
Exactly, further demonstration that the Hunter Bm can be left on the back burner by the developers because at the moment it does not need to improve the damage but it is thought to enhance the MM
A thought shared by many can be objective and above all if supported by facts.
Facts that you don’t share but you are alone with your thoughts.
I still don’t understand the meaning of this log since we are largely talking about Hunter survival in M+ and Raid hasn’t been mentioned.
But just to answer you, don’t you think that the 21% of deaths of the Hunter Bm is high compared to the classes that settle on a decidedly lower percentage, like 5-8%?
You can also not reply to this sentence because it would be off topic since, I repeat, we are talking about survival in M+ which is the main theme of the opening in this thread and why the curators avoid bringing the Hunters into pugs
Hunters are not the problem,
problem we have this season is total domination of Paladins and Priests in mythic +, in almost every department. If you do not bring this 2 classes, you shoot yourself in the foot.
Because surely, in the low keys you made with the Hunter Bm, you found players who, despite using the Meta classes of the game, did it badly.
I can agree with you but then, I’m wondering, why am I having trouble getting invited to pug in keys 22 ?
Problem not only mine, but of all Hunters who don’t have a premade behind them and are forced to pug.
There is a real rejection in inviting this class and the fault remains a mystery, but I think not so much because I have listed the reasons enough
Oh sorry, I forgot that survivability in raid and m+ shares absolutely no correlation at all. /s
It’s clear you have no interest in debating your weak points - you just want people to mindlessly agree with you. The irony in all of this is the biggest issue both BM + MM face in m+ has never been mentioned once ever by you, just showing the complete lack of understanding of actual issues.
But it’s ok, keep screaming ‘fact’ after your opinions to make yourself feel better.
Paladin is good because of the utility, on the other hand, there are a lot of classes that can bring much bigger numbers, if you are not aware of this, then there is no need to explain anything to you. The real problem starts with the fact that many people want to push higher keys than they are suitable for. If someone can’t even survive on +20, why are they forcing the bigger keys? If you want to push 22++ keys then forget about pugs, ofc they will not invite you, usually they are in 3-4 ppl groups and hunting for a BIG**** last dps, no matter your class if u are not on 2,9-3k+ RIO they will not invite you, its simple. You can farm your 8x+20 keys easily if u running your own keys only, im doing it too. But if you want to push really hard ones then find a team, minimum 2-3 players, if u have a tank or a heal its easier to find pumpers.
Never wrote “instant aggro”, but in PUGhell, there are more horrible tanks than competent ones.
With most butterflies DH Tanks, if I do my usual rotation of “Kill Command + Barbed Shot + Barbed Shot + Bestial Wrath + Barbed Shot + 2* Kill Command” from the first pull, by the time I did all that (11.5 seconds), I’ve managed to pull the threat from them and get squished, if they don’t just turn the big cones and AoEs towards the group.
Now, with competent DHs in premade groups, it’s a whole different world !
I know, but I’m still not completely geared up, and I’m doing low-ish keys around +11 at the moment.
Another one said it, but +9% Critical and +90% Hast for the Familiars is HUGE, it’s a bit less than doubling my effectiveness just by haste alone, and with my current stats and Talents when I’m a 3 stacks my Pets do around 49% of Critical Hits.
Wrong. When I cast my interrupt, the base UI of the game shows all my other spell and abilities icon with that rotating shadow indicating the GCD has started. All of them, everytime. Same thing with traps.
It’s not called GENERAL CoolDown for nothing.
Did not write that, I wrote that if I start ramping-up right away before some tank specs with not-perfect players behind the keyboard, by the time I finish said ramping-up and start the massive damage of Kill Commands + 2 Cleaves, I will break their Threat and pull the attention of the hostiles on me.
Not a pipe dream either, I learned that by dying repeatedly after “stealing” the attention of whole packs.
But then, I play in PUGhell most of the time, where when I try to coordinate things before slotting the key I get answers like “ImmaPullBig” and “Mechanics are for noobs, just do damage”.
I will need you to explain that.
The CD of Barbed Shot is longer than it’s duration.
I must hope for a Critical from an auto-attack, or spam Kill Command / Cobra Shot now that I finally got a 4-piece Tier Set to reduce the CD of Bestial Wrath, to actuall have a charge of Barbed Shot available before the end of its effect.
And my WAs show me that I’m usually very close with less than 1 second left on the 3 stacks when I finally get that Barbed Shot charge.
HOW can you keep 3 stacks rolling when you’re running from pack to pack with nothing to shoot a Barbed Shot at ?
Whether there is a correlation or not doesn’t matter because the logs you posted are representative of the Raid which can be formed by 25 ppl, rather than representing the survival of the Hunter in a more “individual” context as that of the M+ could be and on which survival itself certainly has a greater weight.
So, even if you make the effort to have your say, it always has little relevance to the central theme and is extremely misleading as your habit.
On the contrary, I have an interest in discussing Hunter’s problems rather than getting misled by useless technicalities that have no relevance (Ex. Frenzy stacks and damage rate or post useless link)
I don’t need it because, as I have written many times, my thinking is in line with that of many other players who play Hunter but, unfortunately, sometimes I come across discussing with people like you who see things in distorted way, denying the evidence and making me lose interest in talking about it.
Just this.
Am I the one who suffers from lack of understanding?
You write like the one who misses 80% of the general speech and who runs into useless technicalities to show that he knows things.
Expose your pearls of wisdom, what would be the main problem of the Bm and MM on which I have not paid due attention?
What patience does it take…
Up to now what you have written is comparable to the pneumatic vacuum and you are also convinced that you know things
Fells like you haven’t played a BM in a long time : if you cast the BL in the last second before the end of dismiss, you break the dismiss, just as if you jumped or moved or everything.
That does not work.
As far as I know, since I’ve only been playing my BM (and only my BM) since December 2021, it never worked.
Between 90% and 120%, depending on Criticals, just tested that for an hour against the training dummies in my garrison (why garrison ? so that my damage meter would not also include damage from other players).
I go from 220K to 60K without the 3 stacks of Frenzy. With an iLVL of 431 and almost none of the supposed Best in Slot gear.
Lastly, you don’t lose ONE stack of Frenzy if you miss a refresh of Barbed Shot, you lose ALL OF THEM.
Clowns are also in paladins,with the only difference that the paladin class is tempting because it is Meta class while the Hunter, which has numerous problems and is not reworked, is avoided like the plague.
Seeing is believing
If the tank’s moving reasonably fast, you move ahead of the current pack, make sure the last thing that hits the last mob in that pack before it dies is a barbed shot, then you have a few seconds to move towards the next pack before you need the next barbed shot. And even if it’s on CD, you won’t have used wrath at the end of a pack, so you likely have that available to get an instant 2 charges.
I don’t consider myself a good hunter at all, but I don’t often drop frenzy stacks in keys.
The exception is if the tank is stopping to think about each pull, in which case every class that has to ramp is at a disadvantage.
Bro i’m sorry but there is so much wrong here it hurts. No offence, I hope you can learn from some things here rather than take it personally.
It’s not 90% haste. It’s 90% attack speed, that ONLY effects melee white hits.
I don’t know what to tell you, go press interrupt on a dummy and there is no GCD. Also, GCD doesn’t even stand for general, it stands for global cooldown lol.
YOU do not even get threat from kill command, the pet does. It’s literally not possible.
Because in dungeons, you generally don’t sit around for 10 mins between packs, but honestly maybe in +11s people do I have no clue.
Just did it in game, works fine, always has.
Now for the biggest and most insane thing i’ve ever read:
How is it possible to lose 120% damage? Do you start healing the mob? This is literally not possible lmfao. If you do 100% less damage, you are doing 0 DPS. Like it’s almost comical.
For the benefit of Doose as well, the answer is actually somewhere between 5-10%, probably closer towards 5%. What you are probably doing is not pressing barbed at all, which is not even close to what I asked.
Very simple - that both MM and BM sacrifice significant amounts of single target damage, to deal decent AoE. This is exactly the reason why survival is so good right now, it doesn’t have particularly insane ST, nor AoE, but the fact is that it can do both to a pretty good level with the exact same spec.
It’s a fact that hunter is not at the top of the meta right now, but then tell me why it is still the most popular class? I usually make my own keys and see what you can choose from, and I can tell you that many more hunters apply than anything else. There are many paladins? Sure but much more hunters. And most of them are bm, last time im invited one cuz he came with a healer, it was Uldaman +21 i guess, me and the other dps had 150k+ total, and the 442 ilvl 2800 Rio bm hunter had 112k. And this is a common thing, i saw really good hunters, from my guild, they doing insane damage but with pugs i always ****, I’ve given high RIO hunters a chance more than once, but they were terrible always. You talkning about META, there are some classes like Frost DK depends on the Meta it much worse than Hunter but not that popular, usually i invite them when see one in my queue with high rio and almost all of them are top1 dps by far. That’s all about your “META” nonsense.
My apologies, I was wrong on a lot of points, notably the Interrupt and BL.
Yes I do not generate Threat, my main Familiar does, then when it dies, the second Familiar stops responding to anything (even Feign Death), all hell breaks loose, and it’s miserable for everyone.
At least in PUGhell in the 11-16 bracket, I learned the hard way that it’s better for me to wait a bit with certain specs, otherwise I hinder more than I help.
But I’m happy that I was wrong, I learned something.
That said, in the keystones I’m doing at the moment, there’s more than 8 seconds of movement between each pack, and that’s the duration of the Frenzy effect. Even when rushing full-tilt, the Frenzy is gone before we reach the next fight.
For the last part, it’s a typo on my part : that “%” should have been “K”, as in the shorthand for “thousand”.
I’m not at +21 keystones yet, slowly reaching +14 in fact, but I can tell you why BM Hunters are popular : it looks very easy to play, it’s really effective in “ingame outdoors” content, and apparently people love pets.
But while it’s easy to start, actually managing all the timers at the right time in high-end content is much harder, and that’s where you’ll see mistakes and horrible play.
I should know, I did it myself before taking several hours to actually read everything in my Talents and Spells, learn and memorize my timers and CDs, then watch videos and read guides about the current M+ dungeons.
It’s only after all that that I started to get better, not saying I’m actually good yet.
I understand your points here, but man if im talking about 20+ keys and 2,8k+ RIO players there is no place for excuses like this. On high keys everyone should know how their classes works. Is it that hard to watch over some stacks and buffs? I dont think so.
You’d be surprised on how much some people rely on addons, that sometimes give the worst possible advice, and blindly follow the blinking icon and mash buttons.
It’s not that they don’t watch the stacks and buffs, it’s just that they did not do the “homework” themselves to really understand what’s going on with their own characters.
Some of my friends pushed my up by 5 levels during Shadowlands, and I learned nothing, but my RIO and M+ Score climbed very high … but I did not get the knowledge, reflexes, awareness and “muscle memory” in my fingers to actually be worthy of those scores and do “well enough” once they stopped powerleveling me.
It’s not an excuse, but with some luck, or friends with “good intentions”, you can actually get a really high score and not know how to play your spec.