I just said that I’ve already tried and it didn’t work as a solution.
Never said otherwise.
But it’s one thing to start with your own key, and one thing is to have a list with different possibilities.
If the community has a negative perception of the Hunter, there must be a reason.
And the reasons have all been listed, shared by many players.
Of course yes.
Any class can do 22+ if whoever plays them does it well.
But if that class performs much less than other classes, it won’t be chosen.
Who creates a group, first choose the players with the highest Rio but above all the class that provides the best output.
A class that is mediocre in dps (now even more mediocre since the MM has been enhanced, rather than the Bm), which has very questionable defensive cds, which puts the healer in difficulty in healing, and which it does not provide any contribution to the party in terms of buffs, why should it be chosen in 22+ or above?
And you tell me it’s not a Blizzard issue?
But please…
Be realistic for a moment and try to look at the whole thing.
It’s not my fault if you have your own vision of things,
For the record, I have collected other testimonies.
To the question: why do you refuse my subscription?" they gave me the following answers:
Because the Hunter often dies
Because he doesn’t have good personal cds, so it’s boring to heal them (healers)
Because it doesn’t do much damage.
Because even if you have Bl I prefer to bring a Shammy enh in the group rather than a Hunter.
So Jerby, your answers, in addition to being generic and superficial, are not a sign of a minimum of reliability.
If you are good enough you can push your keys easily, yes sometimes u will find some idiots who will break your key, but this is how it works with pugs. I think i mentioned before why i dont want to see any hunters (especially BM) or mages on my keys, the exception is if I know them, because i know some who knows how to play. But whenever I tried random it was useless. And I know that the repost is coming because there are a lot of RET paladins too, I can’t say anything about them because I usually don’t invite more than myself. But why should I invite a hunter who doesn’t give anything to the team, and with a good chance even hisdamage is low too? Bl is the only thing a hunter would be useful for, but then i more like to search for evoker or a shaman. Evoker is just broken and shaman is not mainstream like hunter, usually who playing with shaman on high rio knows what to do.
Maybe this sounds bad, but if you want to go above 22, either forget about the pugs or the class that is not meta at the moment. Or just try it with your own keys. This isnt fair, i know but this is how this community works. Its not a new thing, maybe it wasnt like this before with hunter, but with other classes always. If you can find 2-3 friends it will be fine, i was a solo player for long but trust me its much easier with some friends.
Exactly.
This is the common thought that revolves around the Hunter. But I agree and I have explained the reasons 100 times.
And these reasons have also been remarked by the leaders of the key that doesn’t invite me
Sorry I also do not invite the hunter, not because the hunter is bad. Because the class is bad, I do not even blame the player when they die because I see on the add on they have nothing left they can do, I have nothing left, it is over for them. The hunter needs Insane more self heal,when you have no pet as well, need mend self button. The hunter needs damage reduction and exhilaration cool down is ridiculous length.
It wouldn’t be hard to do it right, but blizz dont give a **** i guess or idk. Exhilaration is just fine, with 2 talents on the CDR, But Survival of the Fittest and Turtle is just a joke with this 2,5-3 min CD. Perhaps it would be acceptable if they make the Survival Tactics pvp talent usable on pven as well. 1.5 sec 90% dmg reduct every 30 sec? Obviously, it would have to be well timed, but it would still be there. Or just buff Fittest and Turtle by nerfing their cooldowns.
The reason why people are not getting invited in +22 or above is simple 90% you dont know who is good or who is bad, and obviously at key lvl 22 U want reliable people, also hunters are getting invited in +20 keys its rubbish what u guys say. Is it hard to get invited yes ofc but its not because u are a hunter its for every single damn dps. Maybe Sp, Retribution has a somewhat easier time but still. Just stop the bs. Bm hunters are not in a Dire situation their dmg is stable they dont have 450k burts AoE but they have THE BEST SUBSTAINED DPS, blizzard will never ever improve the AoE or give hunter bm insane bursts. Learn to live with it.
It’s not quite like that.
I’ve been trying to do 22+ for a week and there’s no way I’ll be invited like Hunter.
I don’t agree that all dps are dealing with this problem in the same way that Hunters suffer because I guarantee you that I always see Shadow Priests, Paladins Retry, Druids, Rogues, some War and several Dh in this keys.
The Rio should give you an idea of what kind of player you are bringing in and,at the same time, when you see that player did all 21+keys is almost surely ready to do 22+.
We are not talking about a player who has only done an 18+ and asks to be invited to a 22+ but about a player who has done that specific M+ 21e who intends to do the 22+.
The Dps of the Hunter Bm is mediocre when compared to that of the usual classes found in Rank S or A and I don’t see why Blizzard shouldn’t buff them.
Is it convenient as a Shadow Priest to close a key at 170k while the Hunter at max 140k?
If the classes aren’t balanced and some are too overpowered, I don’t see what I should learn
Exhilaration is just not fine because the 170k of self-care makes no difference.
If I think the same amount of autoheals a paladin can do after casting a couple of spells…
Oher defensives cds are an absurd recovery time.
well yes actually its not that big of a deal, so u are saying the Augmentation evokers will never have a place in M+ because their dps will be low as hell compared to a Full dps? High keys you dont need 200K dps overall, even a +22 can be done with everybody at 120K DPS overall, High keys is to know when to use your Cd’s defensive and offensive. but Harsh truth? most people DONT KNOW. but ye i wouldnt know huh? because ofc never did a +22 in DF.
The heals a paladin can use ‘after casting a couple of spells’ are not ‘autoheals’. To use Word of Glory, a paladin has to make the choice between damage and self-healing. When they spend holy power on healing, they’re not using their big damage spenders. So yes, they do have the potential to heal themselves for a large amount, but the cost of that healing is huge.
If you’re going to compare self-healing, an equivalent comparison would be with other classes/specs that don’t have to choose between spending resources on damage or healing.
Correct, +its just a silly thing to compare a pure dps class to a hybrid. Ofc paladin, shaman, priest and druid can heal a lot on a dps spec to. But other pure dps classes not, maybe except DK but dk have to make the same kind of sacrefice like paladins if want to use more death strikes. But to be honest most of the hunters i saw didint died because the lack of defensives or self heal, but because of the lack of WASD skill even with BM they staying in every ****. Interesting thing i know 3-4 good hunters and they can manage to survive+do some crazy damage. Its simple at the end hunter can preform well but its the most popular spec in the game and many idiots playing with hunter. So ppl can not trust in a random hunter because of the lot of idiots.
And how was I supposed to write?
Paladin Retry cure itself rather than “autoheals”?
Call it choice…
It’s a decidedly strong ability that saves you and makes the difference in the excited phases of the fight.
The hunter has to flounder with his defensive CDs, obsolete and with a long recovery time.
I do not agree.
It’s a consistent loss of dps if you die in a fight but if you only use this ability occasionally, you don’t lose anything because you avoid dying.
If you think about it, it’s a truly noteworthy gain and ability.
What do the other classes that I haven’t even mentioned have to do with it?
I simply spoke of a self-healing ability of the Paladin, using holy power, in terms of a defensive cd that the Hunter can only dream of and has to stay with his ineffective defensive cds that don’t guarantee him the same survival that comes granted to a paladin.
But this happens a bit for all classes when making low keys and it’s a normal thing.
You only realize when you make higher keys that the defensive Cds of your class are not up to par, especially when compared to those of other classes and it doesn’t matter if they are hybrid classy or not, but simply that you have skills that make you allow you to survive longer.
The same argument can be applied to paladins, where the exponential increase of players who play this class due to the rework, has also led to an increase in the number of “idiots”, as you define them.
With the only difference that the weight of playing a paladin badly isn’t the same as a Hunter as a class that already has a limp and therefore there is not a greater propensity to invite them into groups rather then of the paladin.
But we continue to make generic speeches…
A Hunter like me who has done all 21 in time, has a “right” Rio to be able to face 22+ and is absolutely not invited is because this class, in its entirety, is cheap and makes no difference in nothing.
Døøse: “I’m a hunter and I don’t get invited to keys.”
Others: “List your own key.”
Døøse: “I’m a hunter and I don’t get invited to keys.”
I mean, I assume you did list your own key once because you’ve timed a +22, or is that one that you actually did get invited to? And what happened to the +22 key you got in the vault the week after that?
My main is a paladin. I play ret in raid, and usually play prot in keys. Why? Because I have exactly the same problem as you. If I want to pug as ret, I either have to list my own key or watch the declines roll by in the chat window. And that’s just trying to get into +20s, despite having all but one dungeon at +20 timed.
My hunter is behind my paladin in both gear and score, so I can’t give a direct comparison, but getting accepted into ‘appropriate difficulty’ keys is no easier on the paladin (as ret) than it is on the hunter.
You guys are arguing with somebody who complains about lack of hunter defensives, but literally does not press them anyway. He has 5 logged dungeons this season, and did not press fortitude of the bear a SINGLE time in ANY key. And yes, even with the ones with another bloodlust class in the group.
Again, hunter is absolutely fine if played correctly. But because it relies on active use of defensives rather than passive DRs, it scales a ton with skill level.
I don’t understand how those 5 dungeon logs could be representative of how often I use the fortitude of the bear.
it is absolutely not true that I did not use that ability and yours are simply conjectures that have no basis.
But what to expect from someone who assumes the right to know everything (actually you only answer what is most comfortable for you and lose sight of everything else as you usually do) and who only talks about pneumatic vacuum ?
What to expect from someone who always plays MM and never lost a stack of frenzy playing BM occasionally?
But also not.
It is so fine that the number of invited Hunters over 22+ is drastically reduced from the usual classes mentioned above many times.
Or they scale very low when facing the highest keys and notice that they are inefficient because the damages received are exponential to those keys
Ah sorry, I guess those 5 dungeons just happened to coincidently be the exact 5 that you didn’t use it at all, and all of the other ones not logged you used it a ton. Pure chance I guess.
You also go 20 min stretches without pressing other things but fortitude of the bear is just the most extreme example, because i’ve literally never seen it cast once on any log of yours ever, even last season.
It isn’t, actually. Its defensives aren’t available often enough to keep you alive without a lot of external help.
A healer friend and I were having this discussion the other day. She’s pointed out frequently that most hunters we play with struggle to stay alive, but there’s one who seems to not take much damage - her argument being that hunters are actually pretty good defensively.
I didn’t have much of an argument against that other than to say I don’t know how he does it because I seem to ‘have nothing’ pretty quickly on my hunter. Then I realised the answer is his girlfriend who plays prot paladin and sacs him every time he doesn’t have a defensive of his own to use.
So, there’s the answer, Døøse. Find yourself a prot pala to play with.
We literally have more things to press than almost any other spec.
Last boss in vortex is a great example. If I get chain lightning during the add, I can turtle one, survival of the fittest one, fortitude one, this isn’t even counting exhil, and our higher HP pool.
Then some specs, like having played with enhancement shaman (which is ironically pretty meta at the moment), after pressing astral shift on one, the next they are struggling already.
Like, if people want to argue hunter should get some passive DR or self healing or something, I would still probably disagree, but I could at least see where the train of thought is coming from. But people saying ‘we need shorter cooldowns!!’ or ‘we need another button!’ are simply so far away from what would be needed if we were weak it’s insane.
Really l2p hunter, yes hunters have some problems but they are fine enough for key level 22, and no a healer doesnt need to babysit them. Also sac is what 10% DR? if that is the magic formula this is just BS. if you played the dungeon well like avoiding dmg when you can you shouldnt have “extra care” simple this is the last thing i am going to say about it.
