M+ over 20 = "No Hunters"?

Classes Hunter
123

As written in the previous post, I should start from a 21+, make it in time making it 22 and if this depletes it I should start again with a 21 and so on.
It’s a situation that could happen sometimes but it shouldn’t be the general rule just because the Hunter is in a bad position and isn’t invited to the 22+.

Maybe because the key leader sees your Highest Rio was done by Tank rather than dps?
I don’t know, I’m just speculating…
But I, in every group of 22+, ALWAYS seen at least one paladin or even two (tank and dps).
It is almost impossible, therefore, not to see paladins.

I repeat, it’s simply your unfounded conjecture, typical of someone who speaks like a fanatic and points out things that don’t make sense.
For the record, I also talked about the boredom of changing Pets to take advantage of that defensive so-called and this should make it clear that I use it.
But you can think however you want and I don’t care because you derail the main argument by discrediting the way a player plays.
Cut it 'cause you’re embarrassing the way you talk.
You’re not a superplayer (the way you talk you wish you were) as,at he same time You have absolutely not a High Rio which identifies you as such.

Here, I have no particular problems.
Even if in the week of Tyrannical, with more phases of Nova, the Hunter, having no heals over time, and suffers a lot.
But yours, as expected, is not a representative example as it could be, always in Tyrannical, the boss of Neltharus of the forge, and every time the boss hits the anvil.

But that’s ONLY your point of view.
You are one of the very rare people who believes Hunter’s defensive cds work quite well.
Do you think I give more credit to your ideas, often abstract and untruthful, rather than to players who have a decidedly Higher Rio than mine and yours and who complain about Hunter’s defensive cds?
But since it’s a widespread theme shared by many people who have problems in this sense, do you want me to believe that what you assert is true?
You as a minority compared to the others?
Come on…

124

How is looking at your actual logs/gameplay ‘unfounded conjecture’ lmfao. I don’t have score because I have absolutely no interest in doing it.

Imagine talking for hours and hours about defensives and not using one because of ‘boredom of changing pets’ like bro come on. This is pathetic. You press call pet 2 instead of call pet 1 at the start of the dungeon and you are good to go. Even the keys with a lust class you don’t use it.

You seem to have a problem with understanding that just because a ‘majority’ think something, doens’t make it true. This is called a logical fallacy, look up ‘Argumentum ad populum’. Most people think BM scales better with gear too but guess what, it’s not true.

I give actual arguments and statistics (WCL), you say ‘well I must be correct because lots of people think it!!!’, which not only do you have no evidence for, but also even if most do believe it, again, it doesn’t mean it’s true.

I can’t tell if you are trolling at this point. Wanting more defensives and then saying you aren’t using one because ‘I’m too bored to switch pet’ is literally embarrassing.

You will literally never ever get better at this game when you blame every one of your issues on other people. Just one tiny ounce of self reflection and self critical analysis, I beg, you would gain so much as a player.

125

You took the trouble, a bit like a witch hunter, to go and see those logs in order to discredit the way a player uses his class.
When it was pointed out to you that it’s just a coincidence and that these logs are absolutely not representative, you still continued on your way.
If this is not the attitude of a compulsive fanatic, it must be explained to me.

And they all said so :smiley:

These are your ridiculous preconceptions.
The fact that it is a bore to change pets does not preclude the possibility 'of me using them.

No, at best I’m pathetic because I’m answering you

Even worse this one.
But have you been drinking?

If the majority of people think this way don’t you think it’s more true than what two isolated souls think?
Or do you need scientific postulates to make it true?

Often without any kind of utility or creating disinformation.
How about the hunter’s death rate in a raid?
Which then was also high as a percentage rate and not really relevant to M+ as a different and more “individual” context as explained.
But it was useless with you

Same thing for me that I find myself in front of an interlocutor who intends to defend the hunter at all costs, denying the evidence despite having been explained to you, in an exhaustive manner, all the problems that you categorically deny (you are one of the few if not the only one).

For the record, you tell me about self-reflection and critical analysis, when you are the stereotype of person who is arrogant, fanatic and who claims the right to know everything?
From what pulpit self-analysis?
Ok Bro, since in the numerous discussion posts we have never found a common place, and often with your recourse to critical and completely personal considerations, can we avoid closing the discussion?
Because we give the impression to others that it’s our problem and we seriously risk boring people with this flamming
I would also have liked to hear the opinion of some other Hunters if possible.

126

Then, would you give me a chance ?

I know I’m not the best there is, I did not play before shadowlands so half the M+ dungeons are brand new to me, I think I know my spec well enough to avoid massive blunders despite the built-in limitations.

But, my point is, if I’m never invited anywhere, I cannot prove myself as competent !

It’s a very annoying “chicken vs egg” situation : since I’m not invited, I cannot prove myself. Since I cannot prove myself, I won’t be invited. And finally, since I cannot prove myself AND I’m not invited, I cannot learn and get better.

I have several logs where I did more damage than meta specs that have 10 iLVL more than me, I also have logs where I’m the last man standing, but I have the “Hunters suck” sticker on my forehead and nothing I can do against it.

IF someone, anyone, gives me the chance to get into a key (at my level of knowledge, of course, I don’t even apply in things I know I’m not ready for), I can be useful for more than just BL and contribute to the success of the keystone.

And I know that, because I did, indeed, do it several times, despite not knowing everything yet !

127

I wrote it in a previous post, this one:

They are direct testimonies, not the fruit of my imagination but answers that have been given to me by the leaders of the keys

128

I have ONE thing to say about that : I get more healing for the Leech of my Ferocity Familiar than I can get with the once-every-120-seconds Fortitude of the Bear.

No, two things : I also don’t have to change Familiars in the middle of a run, just for a Heal that is actually not so great : boosts my max HP by 20% for 10 seconds, and heals me for that amount = not nearly enough, even in +14 keystones.

129

Didn’t respond to any actual point. Blizzard could give you another defensive, and you’d just not use that one either :slight_smile:

Leech only heals you for your own damage which is almost nothing. Pet damage heals your pet. It’s basically worthless. Whereas fortitude of the bear is not only a heal, but a max HP increase let’s you live things you might not have without (Doesn’t really apply to +14 keys since nothing one shots I guess, but still better than leech).

130

Both the Personnal Defensives of a BM hunter have a 3 minutes CD, that you can reduce to 2.4 minutes by spending 2 Talent Points (that could very well go elsewhere for more damage).

Aspect of the Turle reduces damage taken by 30% for 8 seconds, if you have invested 2 more Talents points in a specific node, but you can’t do anything during that time.

Survival of the Fittest reduces damage takent by 40% for 6 seconds, if you have invested 2 more Talent points on top of those of the Aspect of the Turtle, but at least you can do something during that time.

They both are damage reduction, and I don’t know exactly why but some of the incoming damage from some Affixes are not affected by them in any way.

But even if you use both, for 70% reduction of incoming damage, it’s not enough against the massive burst in some of the M+ dungeons, and then you have nothing left for 2.4~3 minutes.

The self-heal gives you 30% of you max health back, plus 16% more over 8 seconds if you invested 2 more Talents points in another specific node, with a CD of 2 minutes that can be reduce by 1 second for every 12 Focus points you spend with 2 more Talent Points spent into another different node.

6 Talents Points just for survavibility, that could be spent (and maybe should) elsewhere to boost damage (no need to survive if you kill everything), with a total resutlt of still lackluster Personnal Defensives.

The best way to survive damage as a Hunter, at least a ranged on (so, not Survival spec) is to just be elsewhere when the big blasts happen, and it’s not always possible in some of the M+ Dungeons where you must move as little as possible to avoid spreading nasty pools of death for everyone else.

If anything, the Personnal Defensives and Personnal Heal are obsolete, they just don’t scale enough with the content of the (only two) last expansions I’ve played (Shadowlands and Dragonflight), I don’t know about previous expansions, but I do know that even with 70% damage reduction and full health I can be one-shotted if I’m not out of the big AoE blast that happen much more frequently than my 2.4~3 minutes CDs.

131

There is no place you can gain damage by dropping defensives in the class tree.

Damage reductions are not additive in this way. Also there is nothing in the game that will kill you through 70% DR in +25 keys let alone +14s.

There is no damage loss here. There are no meaningful offensive points you can gain by not taking the above.

Could you give one example of this? What is something that will kill you through 70% DR in m +?

132

Numbers do not lie. Leech heals me for my own auto-attacks, special attacks, and the attacks of my pets. It’s written there in the reports of WLC and Details! …

I get more HPS from the constant steam of Leech than the once-in-2-minute heal of the Tenacity pets.

And I did get one-shotted in +14 keys, but my own fault : being in the belch cone of the last Boss of Underrot, or taking the full blast of Eudora in Freehaven has one-shotted me several time, even at full health and with both Defensives active.

Then I learned to time my movements to get out of there, and I got better, barely happens now, only when said Bosses are suddenly turned back towards the rest of the group by a Tank in PUGhell, usualy with no communication whatsoever.

Remember, I said several times that I’m still learning.

133

I will need help understanding that, noob that I am, I thought they were added together.

Eudora in a +13 Freehaven when she did here “blast things around herself in a circle” if I’m caught in one blast.

I learned, the hard way, to just not be there, or to use Aspect of the Cheetah between blasts if I’m badly positionned, because the DR is not enough, even in a +13.

134

Get yourself and your pet to half HP, then press an AoE kill command on some dummies, and see who gets the healing. It’s your pet.

Tenacity pet ability is 90 seconds, and also it’s not for the heal, it’s for the max HP to survive certain situations.

Exactly. So this is not a defensive problem, it is a gameplay one that can be played around. There are many mechanics in m+ that you are not supposed to survive, and you can simply avoid them. This isn’t a defensive issue.

Of course and that’s fine, it’s why i’m trying to take the time to help.

If we take two hypothetical 50% damage reductions and place them on the same person - that person is not completely immune to all damage. Instead, it’s multiplicative. So the second 50% DR applied would reduce the remaining damage taken by the player by half again. So it would total a 75% DR.

With no DR, you take 100% damage.
With a 50% DR, you take 50% damage.
With 2x 50% DR, the above value would be halved again, and you’d take 25% damage.

If you added a third 50% DR, you’d take 12.5% damage. So yes, stacking DRs ontop of eachother is making them slightly less valuable.

Same again though. This isn’t a defensive issue. These are things you are not supposed to get hit by. And even here, a 70% DR would keep you alive in a +20 tyrannical anyway. There is absolutely nothing in m+ that kills you through a 70% DR that I can think of, unless you have made some kind of absolutely fundamental error.

135

How can I post a screenshot ? Tenacity of the Bear shows a 2 minutes, 120 seconds CD on my screen.

136

It’s 2 mins, not sure why it was 90 secs off the top of my head.

I looked at eudora damage and even on a +20, taking a shot to the face (assuming this is the ability you mean when she jumps and fires in a cone), it deal something like 500k damage in total including the DoT. So pretty much any singular button will keep you alive, and on a +14 you wouldn’t even need to press anything to survive it.

137

Ah no, it’s not the cone when she jumps, and I have bit of a problem here since my game is in French for the exact name of her other special, it’s when she shoots blasts around herself while turning on herself.

But, the last time I was OS’ed by that, I had not found upgrable boots yet, and I was still locked at 415 iLVL, I’m now at 432 iLVL, and I now have 100K more HPs (still, 505K if there’s not a Priest to boost Stamina and I use my Core Hounds).

Finally, yes, I learned : don’t be there, time your defensive right, so, progress was made.

138

It’s not the quantity of Hunter’s defensive CDs that interests me but the quality and state of things they are very questionable.
For you, they might further nerf defensive cds but they will always be good
:smiley:

:woozy_face:

That “pretty much” sounds very bad because the moment Eudora jumps, in 99% of the cases you are not with a full life and a frontal cone in 20+ Tyrannical, it practically kills you.
More correct to say that it is a mechanic to be avoided absolutely rather in the possibility of defending oneself by pressing a button…

139

At least attempt to keep up sir

140

Of course I follow the step,Yes sir.
Unfortunately, If you deny the first sentence by writing whith a second as: “So pretty much any singular button will keep you alive” the reader will surely be wrong
Moral?
I don’t see anything " Pretty Much" but sure death.

141

Idk how to argue against somebody who can’t read

142

Yes Yes sure…
With a sentence that contradicts the first one…
Come on Jerby, even a pelican would understand that you messed up big this time, like other times. :smiley:
Don’t climb on straws