They’re collecting data to ignore it later on. We just have to wait a bit longer XD
I’ve only tried the tank challenge so far on DK, Pala, Druid and DH. The main issue for me on all of them is adds take too long to get down, so you have less time to spend dpsing Variss. Maybe a tiny nerf on Variss HP, but I think adds are the big culprit here. This extends phase 1, so even if you manage to get to phase 2 there are so many adds up it’s nearly impossible to dodge all the knockbacks and aoe. I’ve been doing well most consistently on Prot paladin (which used to be the hardest tank spec in Legion for MT), getting to phase 2 on most attempts but with 2 stacks of annihilate I get hit for 9,5K which is 95% of my HP.
Outside of number tuning, there is also the issue of not having any form of borrowed power. BDK for example used to have Consumption artifact power to burst down a pack of adds. That is no longer the case. My biggest source of AoE damage is the Venthyr covenant ability but that’s disabled.
When so many specs are designed around having some “gaps” that are fixed with borrowed power in each expansion, events like the Mage Tower becomes a huge problem. In some cases you simply do not have the overall toolkit to deal with the fights, unless you are part of the top 1% playerbase.
I realize that I won’t be able to complete all of the challenges this time around, especially for healers as I did those in Legion purely by outgearing them. That’s fine. But I don’t think it’s reasonable that the majority of the playerbase have no chance in hell to do this even on their main spec.
This?
Yes it’s a talent now and 100% useless because of tuning. In Legion it actually did damage. It also competes with Hemostasis on the same tier, so it’s basically a non-option. If they buffed the damage by something like 3-4x of what it is now, then maybe it would be worth taking.
nerf these challenges already, jesus
TIL.
I skipped Legion on my DK, played it in WoD and only touched it after BFA had been out for quite a while.
I really don’t get why they didn’t just add new talent rows and new abilities instead of removing abilities from us after Legion.
I bet most people try it a few times and decide to never touch it again.
I donno what more data they need.
Maybe they just need to reach their played metrics and prolong this as much as they can, since there’s no more new content.
Citation is on the forum that’s been closed to make way for this one. Graphs were coming out at the time, too, comparing the success rates between the different classes.
Finding stuff that’s long since irrelevant and mostly deleted from 4 years ago is no easy task and I will not waste my time trying. If you choose not to believe it, so be it.
This is the same ridiculous take I’ve seen all the way down the thread. It’s what I started out arguing against in the very beginning. One last time, say it with me: The mage tower is not the whole game. You do not alienate the playerbase from World of Warcraft by taking a single feature and making it a bit more difficult. So long as there is something interesting to aspire to and a possible challenge to overcome in the game for whichever player approaches it, there is no problem. Blizzard are not selling mage towers, they are selling World of Warcraft accounts.
It was advertised as a nostalgia feature. If you do not remember how the feature was that we’re being nostalgic towards, and clearly you do not, then why are you surprised?
If you happen to be a person who dislikes tobacco, do you also get hyped up when Prince makes a retro line-up?
That’ll make you unusual. Consider it a complement.
No. I did the content designed for high-end players with high-end gear as a high-end player with high-end gear. I went over this.
Of course not, my gear practically took waging a war to get - but I don’t need it for this challenge because all the random greens you get from levelling as exactly as good as my uber l33t epicz or whatever in the Mage Tower Timewalking because it is Timewalking.
So, realistically, you need enchants and consumables - just like I said before.
I perfectly understand why you feel this way and why you consider gear in this game pay2win. It is of course a very legitimate criticism of my old favourite: The WoW Token. Rage against that problem should be directed toward the source of that problem, which is the WoW Token, not the mage tower.
But yes, granted.
Well that’s kindda mental 0.O
But you don’t need it so… /shrug
Was it, now? Interestingly, when I look at their material and patch notes, it appears to me that they do not mention that it was intended for level 45 alts nor did it say anything about difficulty other than it being “heroic”, which isn’t terribly descriptive. What it does do, however, is hearken back to how it was and it was, more or less, like this.
I’m starting to get the sense that what I’m actually dealing with here is not Blizzard’s marketing at all. Instead, it’s WoWHead datamining when it’s available and making a news post about it, and then everybody thinks that’s how it’s marketed, making WoWHead act as a sort of broken marketing arm for Blizzard Entertainment.
It is no wonder that all the employees I ever spoke to at the company, when I knew any, despised WoWHead. Well then.
As for the rest of your post, I’ve read through most of it and got the jist of it I think - and while there are a lot of real facts in here I find that it all adds up to a bit of a nothing-burger, really. It’s true that the challenge isn’t exactly how it was - Legion’s numbers were much bigger and the classes were different, and therefore tuning adjustments have been made to accommodate this fact - and those exact changes is what makes it … like it was. That’s just sort of how Timewalking works in general. It’s a bit fuzzy, but you end up with things more or less as they were.
Yes, actually you did outgear the content. Just as you did this time around. I already pointed out I completed it (prior to when you did) without any raid gear so how was it in Legion ‘based off of high end gear’? It wasn’t, it was a lot more lax than it is now for sure especially with Artifact weapons, Legendary effects, etc.
That’s an incorrect fact if you understtood how Timewalking scaling works. :3 If it was that way you wouldn’t have popped on your Heart of Azeroth, Leggo Cloak, have everything enchanted, and thrown in some consumables.
Your arguments disprove themselves so quickly every time. Tell me why people are not doing it in unenchanted heirlooms with no consumables if they wanted a challenge? Let alone greens without specific stats/sockets?
Please find me a video of someone doing it in leveling gear without specific stat-stacking, gems, enchants, and consumes.
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I don’t think so. I was struggling madly on my rogue on horde when trying it, it didn’t have the legendary legs and it had higher ilvl, I kept dying constantly due to the damage that was going out on me.
Then my rogue on alliance gets the legs and is still wearing pieces from heroic dungeons and just waltz in and kills it first try because I couldn’t die because of the legendary legs. Like wtf is that?
That, to me at least, sounds like a criticism of the most broken system in the whole expansion: The legendaries. It was infamously hated.
To be fair, i’m pretty sure you could be a mythic raider if u wanted to Onori. You seem like a skilled player.
Watch my insane skills. I just gave up on even trying that again, lmao. All attempts prior to this recording looked just the same.
Well i can say, being mythic raider is no guarantee either 
i’m 5/10, currently at 25,5% best try on painsmith and i cant for the life of me get through p1 of the rsham challenge. I’m not even gonna bother try any of the others 
/sigh/
Timewalking scaling changes the item levels on all your items to match one that is intended and makes your character’s numbers appear as if out of another expansion; except that last part’s not quite true because item levels then were 950 or something, whereas now it’s set to… was it 50?
Anyway, since the item levels are scaled, therefore the item will keep its strength relative to its item level the same, but can now be compared to other items who have been similarly scaled - that is to say if an item has more stats or is stronger than its item level suggests, then it will also be too strong in Timewalking.
A socket or an enchant works in addition to the item level budget and therefore makes the item over-budgeted.
However the items that are most notoriously over-budgeted are extremely easy to get while levelling in BfA, and enchants and gems are also very easy to get, which is the original point I made to you. They are the cloak and the Heart of Azeroth.
Because, Mr. Smartypants, most people do not see the appeal in making something harder for themselves when there is no evidence to back them up afterwards and no reward for having done so - which is in point of fact the whole reason why I am arguing that content should have intrinsic difficulties instead of scaling to whatever tickles people’s fancy.
Ahh yes, let me just find that huge community of people who jumps straight into games they haven’t played before in order to enjoy a nostalgia feature and uploads it to YouTube and then also happen to be easy to find in the search algorithm.
???
I mean they could do it. Pretty sure they could. But I don’t think anybody did.
Scaling for every item is also not the same, it’s not even the same for certain stat weights.
Not entirely true actually, depends again on the stat weights. :3
Not entirely true actually, if you want to actually learn about timewalking gear specifically for Mage Tower… https://www.wowhead.com/guides/best-gear-mage-tower-timewalking-gearing-guide-gearing-strategies
However, only new players are required to level through BFA and anyone experienced with leveling for alts does not take that route currently as it’s bad XP. The cloak, as well, definitely not unless they’re going for an achievement.
I would appreciate you not to misgender, thanks.
But then you, as a player cannot complain that there’s not enough ‘hard content’ in the game now can you? Because you’re trying your hardest to make it easier for yourself.
There’s tons of people who indeed do ‘challenge mode’ content. See even Classic with the Ironman/Hardcore mode.
You can’t, without actual evidence go “Well gear doesn’t really matter much it’s really about skill” But then go the opposite direction when it’s time for you to play that content. :3
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Advertisement != Patch notes, but yeah. And even if the patch notes say that, from most of the feedback, it’s not like it was, and it cannot be at its current state, being that you do not have what you did in Legion.
As for timewalking, or tunning, it’s a cluster f$%& and never worked like it should. Blizz never does that right, at least at first, and it’s not like they have tons of data and years of “experience” to do things properly. Hell, just look at their next door neighboor… Could be a valid example on how to scale things properly I think. And saying you end up with the things more or less as they were, it’s a bit of an overstatement - I mean, you might feel that way don’t get me wrong - but that’s not the reality for most of the player base. And even if it was, they would recognize that some (I think most of them, but that’s my opinion) of the encounters are overtunned =)
But hey, I’ll keep on trying nonetheless, at least for 1,5 weeks more =P
It says basically what I said except more completely. Chromie Time gear is an interesting one, but it’s the same underlying system.
I should also note that I didn’t follow any of that and furthermore that you call me overgeared because I did a bunch of stuff to make my character stronger that isn’t actually any of that mentioned there - yet I still beat it.
Right, but we’re not actually trying to get an alt to max level as quickly as possible - we’re trying to get them into the mage tower as quickly as possible starting to from fresh. Different objective, see.
Sorry, I shall keep in mind what’s going on between your legs as well as your sexual fantasies in future.
PS: Not sorry. I don’t care. To me you’re a Vulpera Rogue from Argent Dawn arguing game mechanics with me. I have problems telling apart Vulpera males and females. Good thing I’m not one, huh.
You do realise that your question is answered directly by the very snippet you’re quoting, right?
If I give you a mathematics test and allow you to do it with a calculator, and then you decide you don’t want to use a calculator and then fail the test, was that because the test was hard or was it because you were giving yourself setbacks?
I want a hard test. A test that I can pin on my wall or send to people who request it. Such as the case right now where the mage tower achievement is missing on my profile for whatever profane reason, and therefore you insist I’ve done it in 7.3 even though it was 7.2 and I can’t disprove it.
Yeah but you’re not actually responding to a comment about doing that.
Oh my god…
I said it’s a combination of all 3 (prep, execution, social) and Timewalking puts far less emphasis on prep by putting an item level cap in place, and as a solo event the social aspect is not relevant, which leaves you with a smaller test of prep than normal but a very present test of execution. Gear matters, but it matters a lot less than it usually does.
Okay, consider this: Difficulty is like a relationship or some kind of ratio between your level of skill and the expected skill requirement. A low difficulty is because your skill is much higher than expected, and a high difficulty is because your skill is much lower than expected.
So if I take something of X difficulty and change around a whole bunch of things but my expectations of the player’s skill level is the same, have I made the content harder, easier, or the same? Well, depending on my competence, I have made it the same.
Of course that competence is what’s being called into question, and my argument is that they hit the mark with a few exceptions because this is pretty similar to how I remember it.
You’re not wrong about any of this, but it’s really a matter of degree isn’t it. I mean if you port StarCraft 1’s campaign to StarCraft 2’s engine, which has been done and is excellent by the way, then some of the changes to StarCraft 2’s pathfinding and unit selection and other systems will change the perception of StarCraft 1’s campaign so if you want something that’s more-or-less the same then you’re going to have to make some adjustments to the campaign difficulty of the missions in that campaign - and this is exactly like that.
If you want truly the same experience, then you’ve got StarCraft Remastered. Or WoW Classic.
Get what I’m saying? 
Yeah where there’s tons of improperly scaled gear, like gemmed 46 or whatever ilvl gear is better than non-gemmed 50 by a large margin. ilvl 50 gemmed gear is even better.
Certain trinkets are huge helps, and big stat weights like the HoA is quite nice compared to regular ilvl 50 gear.
It mentions SL gear with sockets actually, and again you used other pieces… so going 'I didn’t use none of dat and still beat it" Then OK, you like challenges. Do it in heirloom gear with no enchants/consumables?
Actually, at this point most people seem to be boosting - especially since you can boost straight to 60 see.
Gender doesn’t have anything to do with either of those, but thanks for proving that you’re phobic of such things for some reason.
I’m aware you’re one of those dreadful heteronormative people, no worries.
This is not a test, you are not being graded, however. If there was a button to ‘win the game’ for $60, would you do it? (Don’t answer, that’s rhetorical. I know you would since this is what you’re arguing.)
OK then you can’t ever complain about there not being ‘hard content’ in the game because you chose to make it easier on yourself? Not anyone else’s problem, it’s yours.
Just read a guide on it:
Keep in mind that your NPCs will attack whichever enemy you attack first
Was a bit confused, because they’re seemingly random targeting to me. So, I went in there and really checked. First wave, they don’t even touch the mob if I don’t attack it.
Second wave, YEP, NOW WE GONNA GET THIS GUY. I didn’t attack anything. They just picked a target. Kind of inconsistent behaviour.
Gonna try again to see if it’s because I’m not attacking the mob quick enough because I’m healing up as wave 2 starts.
edit: YEP, THEY’RE ATTACKING AT RANDOM BECAUSE I’M HEALING UP. So you can’t even be healing, you have to get on a mob instantly or they’ll pick a target themselves.