Mag'har Unlock - Inconsistencies and Impossibilities

For reference: https://youtu.be/cEaurbg7XtQ

Anachronos: "Is it time for you to visit me already? Yes, I suppose it is then."
Thematically inconsistent:
    “Unto you is charged the great task of keeping the purity of time."
    The Bronze Dragonflights task is to prevent any interference with the timeline. Throughout history, they were repeatedly approached for help, but they always refused to turn back time. Even in the one exception of the War of the Shifting Sands where they themselves were threatened, they acted in the present, not in the past. Their entire task revolves around preserving even the most terrible events: The opening of the Dark Portal, the razing of Stratholme, the creation of the Dragon Soul.

Yet, when a Horde adventurer comes asking for help connecting the timeline back to the alternate universe Draenor in order to gain allies for their war on Azeroth, Anachronos agrees without a moments hesitation.

Sources:
- Thrall: Twilight of the Aspects, page 286
- Day of the Dragon, page 104
- The War of the Shifting Sands
- World of Warcraft - Several Dungeons


Anachronos: "It was there that Gul'dan used a piece of the Vision of Time to travel between realities."
Chronologically improbable, technically impossible:
    The Vision of Time was shattered on Azeroth during the trial of Garrosh, prior to the events of Warlords of Draenor. Chromie gathered all the shards, save for one, which was taken by Kairozdormu to Draenor and later handed to Garrosh. This is the only shard Gul'dan could have retrieved.
    There is no known instance of Gul'dan visiting Nagrand between the events of "Gul'dan and the Stranger", and Grommash putting him in chains after the events at the Throne of Kil'Jaeden. After his release at the Dark Portal by the adventurers, he does go into hiding, but neither he, nor the Legion have a presence in Nagrand.
    Though he does at some point retrieve Gorehowl from Garrosh's corpse in Nagrand, he doesn't know about his origins, the Vision of Time, or time magic in general. Even if Garrosh had the shard on him at the time of his death, between that, and the beginning of the Tanaan campaign, there was no time for Gul'dan to learn to use it, let alone in a way that exceeded a single shards power. Kairozdormu himself admitted that the shard could only resonate with the original Azeroth, where the rest of it's pieces lay.


Sources:
- War Crimes
- Hellscream, pages 4-6
- Gul'dan and the Stranger
- World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor - Intro cinematic
- Patch 6.1 - The Legendary Quest Continues

Eitrigg: "Durotan was chieftain of the Frostwolves. Never have I known a more honorable orc. He was a true leader who loved his people. I miss his wisdom."
Impossible bond:
    Eitrigg was born a Blackrock clan member. He became a Blackrock clan lieutenant during the Horde preparations of the attack on Azeroth during the First War, overseeing the building of the war machinery in Gorgrond. He would serve under the Blackhand, then later follow Ogrim Doomhammer as advisor.

    Durotan and the Frostwolves made up only a miniscule portion of the Old Horde with about 80 members. While the Frostwolves followed the Old Horde to Azeroth, they did so with little other choice. Soon after the invasion of Azeroth, the Frostwolves were removed from the Old Horde.
    The adoration Eitrigg holds for Durotan can impossibly have come from actual knowledge, as they served the same banner for about 4 to 5 years, and had no contact even during that time.


Sources:
- World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 2, pg. 83
- World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 2 page 129

Eitrigg: "Heroes from my world once freed yours from the grip of tyrants." Now Azeroth faces a similar threat"
Logically inconsistent:
    The tyrants Eitrigg could refer to are Imperator Mar'gok, Gul'dan, Garrosh, and first and foremost Grommash himself:
  • The Gorian Empire had long since been reeling, and had little influence on Draenor. They would have been destroyed be the Horde in the years to come.
  • Gul'dan "ruled" over Tanaan for only a very short time and only picked up an already existing social structure.
  • Garrosh only commanded the Warsong and he did so under Grommash.
  • Grommash was the only true ruler of nearly all of Draenor for the longest time.

What Eitrigg is saying here, is, that Grommash owes the Horde for crushing his empire and killing his not-quite son Garrosh.

Sources:
- World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 2, pg. 64
- World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 2, pg. 96-97
- World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor

Eitrigg: "Now Azeroth faces a similar threat"
Twisted logic:
    The Horde launched a full on attack on the Nightelven capital during a time of peace, murdered countless innocents after already having won the war, kills their own soldiers in a gas attack, and blows up one of their own capital cities to prevent the Alliance from claiming it. Yet, Eitrigg formulates this as if the Alliance were tyrants similar to Grommash, trying to kill everyone who opposes them.


Sources:
- War of the Thorns
- Siege of Lordaeron

Eitrigg: "You are the daughter of Durotan and Draka. I see them both in you."
Impossible bond:
    Eitrigg claims to see a Warchief from a small clan he had no possible business with, as well as the Warchiefs mate, both people who have been dead for 42 years, in a woman he has known for five minutes.


Sources:
- World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 2, pg. 83
- World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 2 page 129

Geya'rah: "My father fell in battle to the Lightbound."
Shifting Alliances:
    Durotan and the Frostwolves had almost been killed by Grommash and, together with the Draenei, played an instrumental part in his downfall. Still, Durotan chose to ally under the new old Warchief of the new Mag'har Horde, against the Draenei he fought together with to free his people. From Grommash.


Sources:
- World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor - Battle for Shattrath
- World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor - Fury of Hellfire

Geya'rah: "But without demons to fight, the draenei became fixated upon their precious Light. Their naaru masters compelled them to spread their influence among the orcs."
Inconsistent characters:
    Assuming the naaru on AU Draenor are the same naaru that landed with the draenei in what is Outland, that would mean the following naaru now occupy AU Draenor: K'ara, D'ore, and K'ure. K'ure is killed after transforming into a void god, and D'oro would need another 20 or so years before regenerating.
    The next point would be, if more Naaru arrived on Draenor to lead the draenei, who would that be: The same Naaru that came to Outland when Velen and Khadgar called for help. After all, it is extremely unlikely that on all of space, several ships just happened to be close to the same planet. This would mean that the "naaru masters" who compelled the draenei to force the Light on the orcs were A'dal, who took in the Bloodelves and commanded the attack on Illidan at the Black Temple, Xi'ri, who led that attack, and O'ros, son(?) of Xe'ra, among others. The very same naaru who had so little connection to the fanatical arm of the Light that they killed "the chosen one".


Sources:
- World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 2, pg. 51
- World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 3, pg. 140
- World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade

Geya'rah: "The tyranny of the Light must be ended!"
Inconsistent portrayal:
    The Light has saved both Azeroth and Outland countless times, providing the only real means of defence against overwhelming foes. The Light is often said to bring about feelings of positive emotion— hope, courage, comfort— and the like. This is the first portayal as of the Light as an antagonist, without providing any meaningful reason for why things are happening.


Source:
- Ask CDev Answers - Round 3
- Warcraft 1, 2, 3
- World of Warcraft

Geya'rah: "No... a naaru... Not again!" (as a Naaru casts some sort of area attack, shackling every orc. It is implied this will result in them turning to the Light.)
Inconsistent abilities:
    There are numerous instances of Naaru being involved in battle - Xi'ri, M'uru, K'iru, O'ros - and all of them remained passive supports to the point were some of them died. There is only one instance of a naaru attacking, K'ara the former Dark Star in the defense of Karabor, and that involved a lenghty wind up, which resulted in the destruction of several enemy ships.
    Yet Geya'rah reacts to a naaru appearing in the middle of an outpost, out of thin air, instantly incapacitating every orc in a huge radius, like a recurring occurence. While it is certainly possible that not all naaru have the same powers, Azeroth and Outland have seen 15 different Naaru, of which none have shown to have a comparable power.


Sources:
- World of Warcraft: Illidan, chapter 29
- World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade
- Blood of the Highborne
- WoW: Legion - Quest "Bringer of the Light"
- WoW: Warlords of Draenor - Quest "The Defense of Karabor"

Exarch Orelis: "Cease this pointless defiance, Mag'har!" (Entering in a Warframe)
Impossible technology:
    The Exarch pilots a Lightforged Warframe. Assuming it is the Tempest Keep with A'dal that landed on AU Draenor, there were no Lightforged Warframes on board of the ship. If the Draenei had somehow gotten their hands on the knowledge to build the pinnacle of Light war machinery, they could have still not build it on Draenor, as they lacked most, if not all materials to build it. Should they actually have managed to make such rapid advances in technology in just a 30 year time span, it is unlikely the Mag'har, which consist of the remnants of the decimated Iron Horde, could have held their own for this long.


Sources:
- WoW: Legion - Quest "Scars of the Past"
- WoW: Legion - Quest "A Touch of Fel"

Orelis: "The Light can heal the scars of war!" - Geya'rah "Our scars are not yours to take!"
This is an unnecessary mirror of the "Rejection of the Gift" cinematic between Illidan and Xe'ra.
Xe'ra "Your old life has past; the Light will forge you a new one."
Illidan: "It is not yours to take!"
Xe'ra: "The Light will heal your scars."

Geya'rah: "[...] until Draenor is free!"
A direct reference to the scene at the end of Warlords of Draenor, when Grommash screamed it at the death of Archimonde. Back then, Grommash was the driving force behind the enslavement and death of nearly all non-orcish life on Draenor. It is unclear whether this is meant to signify that Grommash was right, and all draenei should have been killed.

Yrel: "We must make Draenor whole again."
Missing reference:
    It is not clear to what Yrel is referencing here, as Draenor was never truly unified. The Orcs originally lived in clans who would fight each other and only convene once a year semi-peacefully. After they united into the Iron Horde, the orcs tried to kill all draenei. After the events of Warlords of Draenor the orcs and draenei fought against the legion together, but the Legion had many followers from those races as well. Not to forget that ogres and arakkoa also still exit.

    This might be a reference to how the draenei and orcs fought the demons left on Draenor together. The problem with this is, that there are no demons left to fight fight together, and if the goal was to fight alongside the Army of Light, then they would have to leave the planet, which would make a war for unity moot.


Yrel: "The Light will forge a new future for the orcs"
Another mirror of the Rejection of the Gift.

Yrel: "The Light Mother has blessed me with visions."
Impossible contact:
    The "Sermon of the High Exarch" you can find on the corpse of Orelis, explains how Yrel had received visions from X'era, detailing the Army of Light's exploits and plans. This is in stark contrast to our timeline, where Xe'ra died, send her core to Azeroth, a planet important for several reasons, and there conveyed visions in the most roundabout way possible, to champions who where essential to the fate of the universe.

    In the timeline of AU Draenor, Xe'ra can somehow make contact and show visions to some unimportant backwater planet with a Draenei population that had lost a lot of it's technology, as well as been nearly wiped out. They didn't even have a working spaceship - the Genedar, now Oshu'gun, is completely wrecked and insalvagable.
    There is no discernable value in the planet or its populace.
    It makes no sense for the Naaru that arrived to bring these visions either, as the last ship we know to have landed on Outland having been completely oblivious to the Light Mothers great design.


Sources:
- Wow: Legion - Light's Heart
- Wow: Legion - Shadowmoon Valley
- Wow: Legion - Oshu'gun

Yrel: "Exarch Hellscream has been an example for his people to follow."
Dead end:
Grommash's own son converted willingly to the Light, and there is no background or follow up on this. It's just a bare-bones information with no further value.

On the Draenei's supremacy over the planet
Inconsistent numbers:
    Both orcs and draenei had taken heavy losses during the events of Warlords of Draenor. One reason, why the Orcs could so quickly amass such terrifying numbers, despite their hunter-and-gatherer lifestyle was due to them reaching maturity before age 10. Their life expectancy is arguably short, and their mating cycle can mean that within the 30 years Draenor had been uninterrupted, three new orc generations could have reached fighting age, and a fourth could have been borne.

    Draenei on the other hand live to be +25.000 years old (also said to be "ageless"), and are considered young at 230 years old.
    Even if the Iron Horde had been nearly annihilated, and the Draenei kept all their original numbers, it is entirely impossible for draenei to outnumber the Orcs after 30 years.


Sources:
- Wow: WotLK - [Brazie's Dictionary of Devilish Draenei Damsels]
- Rise of the Horde
- Rise of the Horde, pg. 158
- The Art of World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor, pg. 139

Grommash: "It is the Light that has doomed this world!"
Inconsistent portrayal:
    The Light and its worship is ancient. The Draenei have been following it for millenia, and the humans centuries. It has saved the world on several occasions, and protected life more often than not.
    Yet, after 30 years of Light worship on Draenor by Yrel, the planet becomes Light corrupted.

    There actually is a "Light-corrupted" place on Azeroth, too. It's Light's Hope Chapel in the Eastern Plaguelands. A place so infused with the Light, that the corruption of undeath and darkness are powerless within it's reach, and life springs forth against all odds.


Yrel: "It pains me to lose an old friend, Grommash."
Thematically inconsistent:
    Hellscream nearly brought ruin to both Draenor and Azeroth. The Alliance, Horde, Draenei, and Frostwolf had taken great care to remove him from power.

Yet, Grommash Hellscream became the Warchief of the Mag'har.
    Grommash had personally overseen the killing of Yrel's sister. It was under his orders that her people where captured and sacrificed like cattle. His forces had attacked and desecrated some of the draeneis most holy places.

Yet, 30 years later, he's an old friend.

Sources:
- World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor
- WoW: Warlords of Draenor - Quest "The Dark Side of the Moon"
- WoW: Warlords of Draenor - Talador
- WoW: Warlords of Draenor - Karabor

Sylvanas: "I trust honor means as much to you, as it does to him?"
Inconsistent character / duplicitous:
Sylvanas asking about honor after the events at Darkshore and Undercity is either completely inconsistent with her character as ruthless and coldhearted mass murderer, or a clear deceit of the Mag'har.

About the "Mag'har"
Thematically inconsistent:
    "Mag'har" is orcish for "uncorrupted". The Outland orcs named that themselves after the Old Horde had drank the blood of Mannoroth, turning over 90% of the population into the corrupted, green orcs. The Iron Horde Grommash led in Draenor was never corrupted, and the few who joined Gul'dan did not make up even 50% of the remaining orcs. There wasn't this one defining moment at the Throne of Kil'Jaeden where the fate of the Orcs was decided. For all intents and purposes, the Iron Horde, the orcs who had not drank the blood and still chosen to attempt genocide, could count as the corrupted, as they had been drunk on their "racial supremacy".

There is no reason the "Mag'har" are uncorrupted - there aren't even any corrupted orcs left on AU Draenor.

Sources:
- Wolfheart, chapter 4
- Ultimate Visual Guide, pg. 115
- Beyond the Dark Portal

About Yrel's fanatisim
Thematically inconsistent:
    Yrel had ended up a slave in the mines of Tanaan after the Iron Horde declared war on all other races. Her sister, friends, and whatever other family she had, had died due to the war. Her mentor sacrificed himself to save the draenei.
    Yet, once the world had been saved from the brink of destruction to which the Legion and the orcs had brought it, Yrel decides to start another war - to end wars. A lot of people very dear to her have died, so now she sends more of her people to die.
    To put this more into a perspective, the draenei have been incredibly consistent in their overall portrayal, as well as their individual character behavior: The draenei are refugees from a planet they left 25.000 years ago, switching planets whenever danger loomed. Velen opposed the Burning Legion 25.000 years ago and has since poured his all into keeping them save, knowing that the Legion is no enemy they could fight. They always tried to keep peace and a low profile, going as far as to hide their cities.
    Yrel is High Exarch for less than 40 years and turns from someone whose dearest wish is keeping her people save, into an unbeatable juggernaut with powerful Naaru warmachines at her disposal, conquering the planet and annihilating everyone who opposes her.

This is all in spite of her not striking down Grommash as he was bound to the crystal in Hellfire Citadel. Or the fact that the draenei had been traveling space for millennia without ever meeting any more Naaru or receiving help from the Army of Light before, regardless of nearly having been wiped out several times.

Sources:
- WoW: Warlords of Draenor - Quest "The Dark Side of the Moon"
- WoW: Warlords of Draenor - Quest "The Battle for Shattrath"
- WoW: Warlords of Draenor - Quest "Darkness Falls"
- Rise of the Horde
- World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 2, pg. 63
- The Burning Crusade Townhall/Draenei
3 Likes
Very well-written post, it was quite a rushed scenario which did not even have voice acting or a new model of Yrel (she still looks like a generic Draenei Paladin when she should be Lightforged at the very least). In particular, I fully agree with this brilliant point:

Eitrigg: "Now Azeroth faces a similar threat"
Twisted logic:

The Horde launched a full on attack on the Nightelven capital during a time of peace, murdered countless innocents after already having won the war, kills their own soldiers in a gas attack, and blows up one of their own capital cities to prevent the Alliance from claiming it. Yet, Eitrigg formulates this as if the Alliance were tyrants similar to Grommash, trying to kill everyone who opposes them.

Sources:
- War of the Thorns
- Siege of Lordaeron
Awesome analisis, awesome writing. But sadly, BfA is full of similar inconsistencies. BTW this one seems completely out of place.
A very good post with a really well-written analysis.

The whole problem is: You are right.

That's it. There are no explanations to the issues You have listed. Blizzard just decided they are going to make the Light "evil" and that they will bring AU orcs to the Horde. That inconsistency-incarnate of a scenario is the result.

This is the rule of "cool". Developers decided that they are going this way, consistency/story/lore/logic be all damned.

Don't forget that they said: Continuity exists to enhance a story, not to tie the hands of creators.

Which is, in my opinion, the most d i s g u s t i n g thing a person who delivers stories can say.

They don't care that their "stories" do not make any sense. What makes the story a STORY is continuity (growth of characters due to the events they take part it and so forth) and they outright said they don't care about continuity. So we shouldn't expect any explanations.

They are, based on those words, simply not interested if the "story" given to us makes any sense at all. Only "cool", whatever that means, matters.

I agree with every point You have listed. You have given a lot of thought to all those matters. The problem is, Blizzard gave none.
2 Likes
05/11/2018 09:44Posted by Halasibel
Don't forget that they said: Continuity exists to enhance a story, not to tie the hands of creators.

Which is, in my opinion, the most d i s g u s t i n g thing a person who delivers stories can say.


Fully agreed!

If anything, the tying of hands that follows from continuity is where good writers are separated from the bad - how does a character escape from this seemingly impossible situation? How does one significantly weaker character win a fight? A good writer finds ways to uphold that consistency while also thinking of something interesting or amazing that surprises the audience.

Let's be honest, Blizzard has to discard this line of thought and instead look for some good writers who stick to the lore, not just jettison it so that they could write whatever their heart desires.
1 Like
But you know the Legion filled Gul'dan with Information right?

Not to mention he captured and tortured soldiers of Azeroth.

Finally the light is not as much evil as it is pragmatic in the name of good.
And it basically believes it knows best.

So for Xe'ra to tell Yrel to convert the Orcs?
Is not too far fetch as you make it sound.
We've seen first hand that Xe'ra cares little about Mortal Will.

-Your old life has passed, the light will forge you a new one-

Just a reminder
Fully agreed!

If anything, the tying of hands that follows from continuity is where good writers are separated from the bad - how does a character escape from this seemingly impossible situation? How does one significantly weaker character win a fight? A good writer finds ways to uphold that consistency while also thinking of something interesting or amazing that surprises the audience.


THIS is the recipe for a STORY.

Blizzard needs to learn that.
Still have 0 idea why the Bronze Dragonflight would support this warmongering which is destroying the planet.
1 Like
05/11/2018 12:54Posted by Frozenshadow
Still have 0 idea why the Bronze Dragonflight would support this warmongering which is destroying the planet.


Reasons... otherwise the Horde never would've stood a chance.
05/11/2018 13:04Posted by Moridunum
Reasons... otherwise the Horde never would've stood a chance.


Well, they still don't stand a chance. The War Effort and 8.1 shows the Horde losing everywhere if not being crushed.

Some Iron DrAeNoR iS fReE Horde cannonfodder isn't going to make a difference at this point. Especially when they find out that they are being manipulated by the Horde to fight this war.
1 Like
Nicely developed analysis, Yiqiandiren!
I'll back this with my review of the scenario (well, a brash one) here:

26/08/2018 14:18Posted by Ajaxandriel
I'm just wondering seriously - facing such an aberration that I can hardly call "storyline" – if this is the final blow. "Coup de grace"

- Eitrigg as you know, Tirion's buddy, Saurfang's alter ego, quietly SUPPLYING the power of the Banshee-queen AFTER the War of thorns (Baine and Liandrin had the excuse to act before it)
WTF

- Sylvanas believing that the Dark Portal (indeed shut down for years) is the only access to Draenor, while I was there yesterday
WTF

- Occuleth utter inept for this same reason
WTF

- Sylvanas not thinking about calling for help from a more qualified mage, like in the Kirin Tor, like Khadgar or the colleges who opened the Everbloom, or myself, lol. Well, of course we would have firmly refused to help that Warchief, this is consistent eventually.

- So... she asks for help from... the Bronze Dragonflight !? ...well... seems legit.....
WTF

- Anachronos from said Dragonflight who ACCEPTS ! And provides support, not only to the Horde, but to the Horde IN THIS CONTEXT thus sustaining the war effort of Sylvanas !
WTF

- We visit Draenor in its own future ! Instead of the time we just left before, after HFC when the orcs were still ready to follow us ! Ooookaaay.... In my country we say "TGCM" (shut up it's magic) let's imagine the time artifact is a bit disrupted, and the bullsh!t about time through the Nether, and all that
Still WTF

- Grommash still Warchief on Draenor ! Without a tiny trial, the guy ! le meme "Draenor is free" is made canon !
WTF

- He's supported by the own DAUGTHER of Durotan ! Remember, that clan enslaved and killed by the Iron Horde !
WTF
- The scenario keep mocking the audience's intelligence, la Greya'rah yelling "until Draenor is FREE !"
WTF - The respect of the player is dead :D

- Eitrigg dumb to the last degree
"Heroes from my world once freed yours from the grip of TYRANTS. Now Azeroth faces a similar threat, so we have come to ask repayment of that debt."

" A SIMILAR THREAT"

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/666/_57c8a1a431a592af806925e57258202f.png

= All this bullcrap looks like a bad fanfic during smokepot party
(with all due respect ! When some of us do this, some gruesome WH4K-like uchrony, well it may be fun. When the trainees in command at Blizzard's make this canon story, here comes the........CRINGE :s )


( https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17622653426?page=1 )

04/11/2018 17:18Posted by Yiqiandiren
Anachronos: "Is it time for you to visit me already? Yes, I suppose it is then."
Thematically inconsistent

Yes, Anachronos actively and willingly supporting the Horde - and moreover, doing so in the present context - is a major mindblow.

04/11/2018 17:18Posted by Yiqiandiren
Anachronos: "It was there that Gul'dan used a piece of the Vision of Time to travel between realities."
Chronologically improbable, technically impossible:

Haha well spotted !... I didn't even tried to figure out this sh!t... At first I even believed it was the "first Gul'dan" from the First War and let's avoid the how's and the why's but, indeed if it's explained that the shards of the stone from the Timeless Isle are the reason of all these "visions", then it's even worse!!

04/11/2018 17:18Posted by Yiqiandiren
Geya'rah: "My father fell in battle to the Lightbound."
Shifting Alliances:

Yes - shifting Alliances is not inconsistent per se, it occurs in history, it occurs even on Azeroth - but this would have to be explained to be acceptable! How the hell can Durotan side with- and die for the Horde of Grommash against the benevolent Yrel. One can imagine the Light, insidiously changing the orcs, then Durotan rejecting it and taking arms against it, then allying himself with iron orcs to avoid the Light hegemony... but that's moot headcanon and that's awfully not ...told.

04/11/2018 17:18Posted by Yiqiandiren
Exarch Orelis: "Cease this pointless defiance, Mag'har!" (Entering in a Warframe)
Impossible technology:

Indeed a cheap way to recycle the Lightforged stuff in another context...

04/11/2018 17:18Posted by Yiqiandiren
About the "Mag'har"
Thematically inconsistent:

For me, this is the signature of the dev teams not being able to chose between Outland Mag'har Orcs and the Alt-Draenor Clan Orcs. So they mashed up mag'har as a word with an alternate future of the clan orcs as a context...
Sadly written.
2 Likes
Oh no, the Horde is portrayed sympathetically and not as genocidal maniacs, and Alliance races are shown as capable of evil deeds. The purity of the Aryans- I mean, the Alliance is stained! Quickly, make the Horde commit more war crimes!
05/11/2018 13:51Posted by Ashval
Oh no, the Horde is portrayed sympathetically and not as genocidal maniacs, and Alliance races are shown as capable of evil deeds. The purity of the Aryans- I mean, the Alliance is stained! Quickly, make the Horde commit more war crimes!


Yrel's Lightbound vs The Iron Horde is just 2 evils fighting each other, nothing more.

The Iron Horde's actions should not be forgotten, especially when the leader of them now is still the same leader as them back then. Even now they still brutally occupy the Orges and force them to serve, killing any who speak up.

Am I meant to feel sorry for them? I hope Yrel cleanses them before she AU Draenor fades from existence.
05/11/2018 13:51Posted by Ashval
Oh no, the Horde is portrayed sympathetically and not as genocidal maniacs, and Alliance races are shown as capable of evil deeds. The purity of the Aryans- I mean, the Alliance is stained! Quickly, make the Horde commit more war crimes!
If you had one ounce of respect for the orc lore you would be ashamed of your own pseudo irony, while advocating for that utter mess.
1 Like
Part of me is tempted to play the role of devil's advocate and post a refutation of every point that you have made (even though quite a few of them are correct), just for the purpose of fun. But I don't think I'd be able to muster the effort to finish it, so kudos to you for managing this.

Instead, I'll simply state that a lot of your arguments seem to rely on the characters having the logic, knowledge and perspective of a player, rather than that of a character within the setting.

For example, thirty years have passed on this version of Draenor; consider how the characters of Azeroth evolved over the course of ten years, let alone thirty, and how their personalities changed over that course of time. Jaina's character during Battle for Azeroth is inconsistent with her character during the Frozen Throne, as just one example. You'll need to account for that passage of time when considering such inconsistencies. Just because we do not perceive the changes that occur during this time frame, it doesn't mean that they aren't relevant.

Over these thirty years, devotion to the Light without a guiding figure such as Velen might have gone down a unique or different path. Over these thirty years, a relationship of some sort might have blossomed between Yrel and Grommash. Developments have occurred over a period of time that we are not entirely privy to and that's okay.

Similarly, characters are allowed to have skewed perspectives. They are allowed to be capable of duplicity. Sylvanas Windrunner is a maniacal hag, being a lying witch that exploits the honour of others is well within her character. Eitrigg is a loyal soldier of the Horde, of course his limited perspective of the Alliance is one of tyrants and zealots. Their beliefs and actions are not storytelling flaws unless they go against their character.

However, a lot of your points have merit. There's some impossible things that take place, likely just for ease of development rather than any actual excuse. Overall, it isn't a well-constructed scenario and you point out a lot of flaws in it, but some of your comments are coloured with an unnecessary rhetoric.
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05/11/2018 12:54Posted by Frozenshadow
Still have 0 idea why the Bronze Dragonflight would support this warmongering which is destroying the planet.

They've supported opening the Dark Portal in the first place, which led the blood-thirsty-demon-infused Horde to Azeroth.
They've supported the culling of Stratholme, which turned Arthas into a Death Knight and summoned the Burning Legion to Azeroth.
They see much bigger picture.
05/11/2018 14:08Posted by Artein
They've supported opening the Dark Portal in the first place, which led the blood-thirsty-demon-infused Horde to Azeroth.
They've supported the culling of Stratholme, which turned Arthas into a Death Knight and summoned the Burning Legion to Azeroth.
They see much bigger picture.


They want to preserve the timeline, AU isn't meant to be part of this and is a anomaly.
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05/11/2018 14:26Posted by Frozenshadow
They want to preserve the timeline, AU isn't meant to be part of this and is a anomaly.

But what if the creation of the AU is a part of the true timeline even if the AU itself is not of the timeline, and the Mag'har from the AU are required to fulfill a certain role in the future of the true timeline? If that is the case, then the Bronze Dragonflight is fulfilling its role by moving the Mag'har from the AU to the true timeline so that they can do their part.

This just could be Anachronos ensuring that everything happens as it is meant to, even if it requires his interference and bias towards one faction over another at a specific point in time.
It is almost as if Blizzard wasn't able to deliver consistent and believable storytelling. Shocker, right?
2 Likes
05/11/2018 14:01Posted by Taxania
Part of me is tempted to play the role of devil's advocate and post a refutation of every point that you have made (even though quite a few of them are correct), just for the purpose of fun. But I don't think I'd be able to muster the effort to finish it, so kudos to you for managing this.


Let's be real here: You wouldn't be able to write a post that's even 1/10th as good as the OPs. Don't go around acting all high-and-mighty, saying stuff like "I can deconstruct your post in a few mins, I'm just too lazy to do it". The OP literally gave 3+ sources on each statement he made, backed it up with proper grammar and fluent speech. You're incapable of even showing a shred of respect for his hard work (which probably took several hours). If I were you, I'd shut my ungrateful mouth and go read some of Zarao's brainless fanfic topics instead.

On-topic: I agree fully with the OP, am amazed at the work put in and just overall happy to still see decent posters on this God-forsaken forum.

The problem with the whole continuity stems from WoD and the entire debacle with "time travel" (although they told us it's not time travel). Blizzard really wrote themselves into a corner with that one and now they're looking for ways to re-use old content (as per usual, lazy-!@# work). Problem is, they start contradicting themselves with the whole scenario (epsecially when there are probably a team of 100+ people writing this garbage lore at the moment). This isn't the first time this has happened, and it won't be the last (remember how back in WoTLK, the Titan Keeper Loken was the prime-designate, and that was the lore for a while, until they wanted to include Odyn, as a rip-off from Odin, so they retconned the ENTIRE Ulduar lore and re-wrote it from scratch).

Sad to say, this is the current state of things. And, as a lot of people have already mentioned, good writers are differentiated from mediocre/bad writers by their natural ability to use existing information/slore and build upon it, develop it, twist it, even work around it (if need be) but always go back to the roots. Anyone can write a story out of nothing, which is what Blizzard are currently doing. Those that can write a good story out of something that already exists - cudos to those people.
1 Like