Man'ari Eredar Full Customization OR Allied Race

Moltensage-turalyon · April 8, 2023, 9:45am

Now you are just being silly. You want the names of the individual demons / Manari / Eredar that is handling the day to day administration duties of the Burning Legion.

You continue to change the goal posts.
Your claim was that Sargeras is a being of Order. I refuted that claim that since Sargeras was effected by the Fel he ceased being a being of Order as his actions is no longer in the service of Order.
The Fel does effect just about everything INCLUDING the Titans. Now you change the goalposts to imply that there was a claim that Sargeras ceased being a Titan.

Normally bouncing knowledge of others is productive. “love the void”? lol.

Shadowlands is a bad reference. It removed the agency of Sylvannas as they tried to add a redemption arc that does not always work for characters. Shadowlands done more harm to the Lore and World of Warcraft overall. So many mistakes was made with Shadowlands that Blizzard as a whole are/should still be doing damage assessment and fixing the problems created.

The Burning Legion have been defeated but still do exist. Whether they rebuild or not is another thing. You might want to throw them in the dustbin but they are not out for the count yet. Some of them could be trying to figure out how to release Sargereas.
Archimonde was not killed in the Twisting Nether. So its a question mark on his perma-death status.

You argue for the sake of arguing. Some changes does not make sense. The Dark Rangers are Undead. Nature is a different realm and power than Undeath. So for the Undead to become Druids is something that should not happen within the Lore.

Retcons can do more harm than good. For example. Disney murdered Star Wars franchise. Force Users can not fly.

Yet scenes like this above. Retcons that. With Leia flying like Superman through the vacuum of space.
Force users can also suffocate. HK-47 the Assassination Droid of Revan found many different ways of hunting Jedi.

Your argument is: Blizzard can do whatever the heck they want to do.
My argument is: Writers CAN harm and damage what came before them so some retcons do not work.

Even in MMOs such as Star Wars the Old Republic. It is still consistent that FORCE USERS CAN NOT FLY.
So in this thought experiment of the Lightforged Draenai Warlocks Blizzard will HAVE to explain When or WHY the Draenai emraced the Fel? and all of the things that they have suffered by Archimonde / Kiljaedden / the Manari Eredar / Burning Legion.

Which is why some things can not be done.
Unless the new new Star Wars will have Jedi and Sith flying around like Kryptonians. While YOU might refuse to see my point. Others that are reading the thread understand to various degree the points that I am making.

Yes Gatekeepers are needed. Otherwise people like you would come to change everything and try and ruin the existing lore and setting. Look at the Warhammer 40K incursion? as some attempt to push for female Space Marines. There is so much lore why female Space Marines does not work.

(As for the above quote you can add links but for some reason I can’t even when just quoting what you wrote)
Incorrect again. DragonKin is not Dragons. DragonFlight even has Dragon Toads. But despite being DragonKin they are still not Dragons. The Dracthyr once again are the creation of Deathwing. The Dragons actually exist on Dragonflight.

Most of the playerbase don’t want Naga. Those that call for it are anomoly.
Naga have been hostile to just about everything for too long to be brought to the fold.
The factions and Blizzard have moved on from where Naga would be feasible.

At least you provide some elements of entertainment. I will give you that. Warcraft is a different entity to the World of Warcraft. You are on a forum of the World of Warcraft.
While some elements can be transfered from Warcraft to the World of Warcraft. Such as the Horde drinking the blood of Mannaroth a 2nd time, and The Daughter of the Sea speaks of Jaina Proudmoore’s betrayal of her father Daelin Proudmoore to try and broker peace with the Horde at Theramoore.

So if you are grounded in Warcraft. Then you are free to walk away from the World of Warcraft then go back to playing Warcraft 1 - 3.
You don’t have to be here. The World of Warcraft is not necessarily beholden to Warcraft. Much has changed since then.

The Manari are Burning Legion. Seen as much of a threat as the other Demons of the Burning Legion. No one in their right mind will embrace the Manari.

Blizzard forum moderators have proven they are not a neutral platform by nuking threads etc… of such discussions. Chromie could be a mascot for activists I am not sure.

Incorrect. Blizzard lost a lot of WoWtubers with how bad the writing of the Shadowlands was. Have to be careful of the direction that you move.

When you are incorrect you are incorrect. just accept it learn from it and move on.

Moltensage-turalyon · April 8, 2023, 9:50am

If you don’t want to engage in the conversation then that is fine. You can go back into your fox-hole.

Its just that head cannon people can mislead others that don’t know much about the lore. Yeah not many people are actual Lore nerds. But there could be new things that people learn or even dabble in new races etc…

This talk to just grow your ignore list. Defeats the purpose of ignore function. People tend to isolate themselves in echo chambers where differences of opinion is verboten.

You do know your stuff when it comes to Troll lore. So engaging with you on other threads is not entirely fruitless.
We need to learn from the Red-Shirt guy.

Imperia-skullcrusher · April 9, 2023, 12:45pm

No i just ask the name of the current leader of them, but you fail to understand this simple thing.

He cessed to be in the service of the Pantheon of Order which is different than being in the service of Order itself, another example being the Jailer, who was still a being of Death, working for Death force, but no longer working with the Pantheon of Death. Its exactly the same with Sargeras, read chronnicles again and you will see that even before he took the fel and after, he always aimed to bring Order to the universe.

Thats not an explaination…

I will answer by a simple fact : Shadowlands exists, and so by the simple fact it exists, you must and are demanded to take it in account if you want to talk lore, ignoring it is simple head canon and if you head canon then i see no reasons to continue this exchange.

And again they dont see them as mistakes, so why are you talking about? How would it change if the creators themselves dont see them as mistakes? Its not your story, like it or not.

Head canon you have litteraly no source behind that whole caim.

He is perma dead, source is the audio drama “the tomb of sargeras” (he died in the nether on the MM dificulty and it was chosen as the canon end.)

And yet you can, because it is in the field of gameplay. You get it now or still not?

Look up the definition of retcons and you will see that retcons are impossible to avoid and are in any stories that are more than “one shots”.

And the conclusion is : You are powerless to stop them doing it anyway.

Or they can add them without any explainations just like for example tauren mages.

The fact is “ruins” anything is purely your view thought…

Both are still dragons thought, i think you just want to not understand the definition of dragons in wow and i will give you then : " Dragonkin (or dragonkind ) are all creatures descended from and including dragons,[1] from drakes to drakonid. Nearly all dragonkin belong to one of the main or lesser dragonflights."

Dragonkin includes dragons, dragons are part of dragonkin, but all in all, ok if you want, i can just change slightly what i said before and i can just say “would you have imagined that dragonkin would join the factions before df? surely not and here we are” now you still argue?

Troll/20

Ever heard of Illidari nagas?

Thats again headcanon/troll just to look smart but with nothing to support the claim.

That is the moment when i figured out that you are a clueless ignorant person who dont deserve my attention anymore…

Ok so, just so you know, EVERYTHING like litteraly EVEYRHTING in the so you call it “World of Warcraft” is a reference to either war1 war2 or war3 like it or not but it is. Here you are just tyring to look smart again…

Actually, you are just hypocrite here, you want to enforce that “it is world of warcraft” and not warcraft, but i will argue that, in the “world of warcraft” shadowlands existed so you have to take it in account because it is part of the “world of warcraft” Checkmate !

It is, every theme are related to it, every single expac have its origin from something which existed in warcraft prior to wow.

Headcanon again its crazy how you cumulate them.

And so they said Shadowlands did not exist and/or its lore did not happen? Ho no they did not! Too bad…

So what you still doing here just follow your own advice and move on…

But you dont know a dam thing and its why i can undo what you claim so easily, and ok so you did admit you are an head canon person, thanks its all i needed to know!

This shows what kind of person you are…and its the last time i bother with you btw.

Thanks for all your advices i do this now right away!

Evángelina-bladefist · April 9, 2023, 1:07pm

I normally am not into Draenei but i gotta say that having a red skinned and green eyes Draenei would be so cool and awesome, i mean think about it Draenei having green eyes Like Blood Elves at 1st, That would be AWESOME! I personally do support this thread whatever others think, And I would love to see more playable races in this game!

Moltensage-turalyon · April 9, 2023, 3:18pm

Still would not make sense in anyway.
Despite an enemy to take out as part of the Burning Legion. Bringing them into the Horde or Alliance is just wrong.

Attillas-alakir · April 9, 2023, 4:59pm

They seem look cool and exciting

Salendis-sargeras · April 9, 2023, 5:02pm

Given that the man’ari eredar are well anchored in a culture to make it just a customization for draenei it’s stupid… But in the horde I have trouble, but why not and for the alliance seen how velen likes forgiven why not.

Slinks-silvermoon · April 9, 2023, 6:19pm

A lot of people argued that Nightfallen should have been an alliance allied race. I respect your opinion, but personally I’d prefer to see them in the horde, but i’d be over the moon if they were added in any way

Moltensage-turalyon · April 9, 2023, 9:45pm

Velen will not forigve the Manari. They used to be close. But after being hunted from planet to planet. Then Kiljaedden using his own son. That Velen though was long dead as a weapon against him.

There is no forgiveness for the Manara Eredar. Their only hope is the Burning Legion. They willfully burned countless worlds and saw to the extinction of many species across the Universe.

With the imprisonment of Sargeras it only makes sense that others in the Universe would work to see to the extinction of the Manari.

Allied races brought the problem of entitled players making silly demands. Like the OP of this thread.
Draenai in the Horde even the Manari won’t make sense. Since Horde have often murdered Draenai whenever they had the chance.
Manari Eredar at this point are inseparable from the Burning Legion.

The Night Elves made their separation from the Trolls regardless of their origins as Dark Trolls.
The Nightborne are making their separation from the Night Elves. They just ignored the help that the Alliance has provided for them and regaining Surumar.

Imperia-skullcrusher · April 10, 2023, 10:24am

I would say that Velens way for forgiving depend on many things, i know he forgave Kil’jaeden, but i wonder if he would have forgave him if he was not in his death moment.

Velen showed both mercy and retribution to the man’ari, so i think both could be used as arguement. Also there is the issue of how the man’ari would manage their addiction to the fel, and i dont see many people in the Alliance helping them with that.

Plus, i think the man’ari would bring good new blood to the Horde, making them even more “new” and also would fit with Blood elves.

Silverglare-argent-dawn · April 10, 2023, 10:32am

I doubt such thing even exist
I mean the Man’ari became Demons, not addicted to the Fel, they got infused to the point became demonic like the Satyr or the other races that became demon
So they don’t need “help” on that part

Talyie-argent-dawn · April 10, 2023, 10:46am

Agreed with that as the Lightforged should be.

As an Alliance player, i was really upset when they announced the Allied races will join our faction.

Konstantino-celebras · April 10, 2023, 10:53am

You should read the lore of the Shivarra and why Mother Malicia is helping Illidan.
There it is said that she helps him cause Illidan stored a massive amount of arcane energy which could have easily sated the Blood Elves because he wanted to give it to his loyal Shivarra as a replacement for Fel addiction.
But sadly that whas it and there is more sources and expleanations needed.

Silverglare-argent-dawn · April 10, 2023, 11:15am

You mean the Shrine of Lost Souls Illidan intended to offer the blood elves to free them from their addiction to the Sunwell, but for some reason he didn’t let them near it, but let the Demon in his service to use it?
It is a bit strange tho, Ebonlocke later compared the Shrine’s power to that of the Well of Eternity, and it was a source of Arcane, the opposing of Fel
Why would a creture of Fel be addicted the substance it was born from?
Matron Mother Malevolence and the other demons we encountered not really showed any sign of addiction… nor any Warlock minion requires a steady Fel-consumption to survive
IF such thing exist, it was quickly forgotten, like the other inconsistencies of TBC
But lore is a lore, even if it stupid
IF such addiction exist, could be the reason the Man’ari to join either the Horde, either their brothers and sistery; to be free from the Legion Remnant and Fel addiction, they seek a way out; Warlock manufactured Fel-crystals, or Arcane crystals to keep their “hunger” in check
I mean the

part stil wouldn’t sand, since the Alliance is perfectly fine with the Void Elves and the Warlocks and even the Dark Iron elemental summonings
No to mention the Shadow Priest who court the Old Gods and dance at the edge of insanity
A Man’ari would be more stabile mentally, than any of the others above with the honorary mention of the Demon Hunters who are ticking time bombs too… thus more “trustworthy” than those Alliance members…

Imperia-skullcrusher · April 10, 2023, 12:17pm

I dont know if the term “addicted to fel” would be the best way to put it, i may have miss said it here, but more that the fel (and therefore demons) need a source to feed on, the fact they are fel beings, just like the fel, they need to feed on life and other energies to work (just like we need food to function) its what i meant by addiction at least, just like the blood elves were addicted to arcane, they had the hunger for it, just like the fel and the demons have the hunger for other energies to be their fuel. Its what i wanted to say.

Lightforged are draenai, man’ari are not draenai, thats one of the big difference here, you want cheap customozation to make man’ari have gift of naaru and other non sense? Please dont…and btw i made a whole paragraph on my op to explain why having them as customization would be a bad idea, the fact you even compare man’ari with lightforged is showig you dont know about them.

Moltensage-turalyon · April 10, 2023, 1:25pm

It is silly that you would create a thread about the Manari Eredar then following the advise of Kentarro you seemingly put me on ignore.
It is okay if people want to create echo chambers that ban difference of opinion.

But time after time there are explanations of why the Manari Eredar will not work as an Allied race to the Alliance or the Horde.
Other than demands of players that they want X to be an Allied race and Blizzard should bend the lore - WoW universe and Retcon everything to make it happen.

If you actually paid attention. The death of Velen’s son Rakeesh at the hands of Velen and the player character. Changed Velen entirely. the forgiveness thing is out of the question.

The Alliance and Horde are more inclined to destroy the Manari and they might seek some kind of armistice or peace treaty to stop themselves from being hunted to extinction.

All of what the Manari done, What they have become can not be ignored / dismissed / overlooked.
The Fel is too destructive for one to become addicted to it. Even those that are part of it such as the demons natives of the twisting nether can be harmed by it. hence why Warlocks are able to kill demons not just enslave or banish them.

Silverglare-argent-dawn · April 10, 2023, 4:34pm

Missunderstood you then, sorry

Would reflect tho’ they are acceped back
(It is silly by the way, the soldiers and members of the Naaru’s army of Light, the Lightforged DON’T have the gift of the Naaru…)

Moltensage-turalyon · April 10, 2023, 4:59pm

shh they are the lore masters that know all the WoW lore and can’t be corrected or get things wrong.

Slinks-silvermoon · April 10, 2023, 5:19pm

Just going to interject here to offer a few points to consider

That is one piece of in-game writing for the story, so it’s possible that things change
Why does it all hinge upon Velen’s consent? So they can only join the horde is Velen gives the nod?
Velen is a character for the Alliance is he not?

There is always room for change and it’s ignorant to suggest otherwise

Requests*

Changed / continued to write it for the Dark Iron Dwarfs to join though didn’t they?

According to whom? Moltensage?
I bet there were a lot of players that said the same thing about Demon Hunters at first? and Death Knights? but with continued writing and creativity… hey guess what

If you want to follow WoW strictly in a lore sense , that is fine but don’t belittle and shut down other people’s ideas who pay and play the same game just because it isn’t your cup of tea.

Others players support this idea , and would love to see it
So please respect that

Moltensage-turalyon · April 10, 2023, 5:41pm

The Draenai revere and respect Velen. He was the one that kept them alive as a species. Despite their losses and sacrifices. They would turn to and depend on Velen. For guidance in times of peace and his strength in the Light in times of conflict.

Whenver the Manari Burning Legion would find and catch up to them. The Draenai done what they could to save as many of their people as possible. Flee if they have to. But with the help of the Alliance and Horde they took the fight to Argus.

However the murder of his son. Something did die in Velen. He literally said “the Light has died this day” when her was holding Rakeesh.
No Draenai including Lightforged Draenai will actively oppose Velen.

It is possible to apply this passion and conviction but to argue for the inclusion of the Murlocs as an Allied race. Then act with derision and hostility when explained WHY Murlocs does not work as an allied race to the Alliance and the Horde.

I said it before. But there should be a cap on admission into the Alliance and Horde.

Incorrect it is more demands. You get these threads every now and then. The thread for High Elves in the Alliance has continued for 7 years now.

Are you also trying to compare Dark Iron Dwarves to Manari Eredar?
I will tell you what I told the other guy. That is like comparing apples to nuclear bombs. One of these things is not like the other.

According to what has been going on in the World of Warcraft. The Manari are a Universe level threat. Planet after planet have fallen to them. They rival the demons in their cruelty and sadism and some Manari even go to the Twisting Nether. Proving they are more demons now than not.

Why stop at the Manari? Why not make Pit-Lords and Nathrazeme as Allied races?
It is not belittling just that it is a very long stretch to try and sell it.
After all that the Manari have done they will find refuge on Azeroth? They actively tried and failed to destroy Azeroth and all life on it. There are many many of their victims, those whose people were “feul for the fel”.

Demon Hunters carry the Legacy of Illidan Stormrage and while closely tied to the Burning Legion has always been against them. Arthas Menethil was also a part of the Burning Legion since the Scourge was their creation and was meant to weaken Azeroth for the eventual invasion by the main forces of the Burning Legion. Well a 2nd invasion with the whole Azara and well of eternity thing.

A Draenai Warlock / Lightforged Draenai Warlock is not my “cup of tea” because it goes against the lore and the game.
Should the Manari and Burning Legion regain their strength then they will return to becoming a Universe level threat. Finishing what was done on Argus will be important.

It is good to be able to theory craft and stuff on the forums. But there are silly things that are mentioned. Like Murloc Allied race. Is there with Manarai Eredar Allied race. It does not make sense.