Neither do you ?
The draenei skeleton is already in-game on a playable race
Doesn’t take someone with a PHD to work out what would be more probable/easier
Then perhaps discussion on forums aren’t really for you, as not everyone you engage with is going to agree with you
Source?
A feeling
I am calm?
You are just looking for someone to argue with. I’m not it. Your opinion is not the same as mine. I can live with that. If you can’t, well I don’t care.
Will not come as their counterparts the Ho-Zen live only 20 years and so it would be problematic as a playerrace Ho-Zen would only be possible alive for 10 Add-ons at best.
Then you should better learn your lore or maybe even play an orc as they have a reapearance in their traditionquest.
While they are as “died out” as the Quel’dorei, there is still enough to fill a village.
Their anomisity with the Draenei is btw as old and maybe even outdated as the talk that the Draenei do not like the Broken because they think with their corruption they are not really connected anymore.
So when the Alliance will get finally High’elves as an allied race beside Voidelves than the Mok’nathal could come too. But until this the Ogres are a better fit as they have similar long and deep connections to the Horde as the trolls.
Yeah don’t think that is making sense anytime soon
Cool let them add Ogres. They aren’t for me, and I’d be surprised if any meaningful % of the playerbase played one on a main (just my opinion). Of course unless the racial was op in pvp.
elaborate
It was taken from Wowpedia , which was a reference from The Dragons of Outland, published in 2010. A bit old, but no ancient 
Not comparable in any way shape or form but ok
Rexxar recruited an ogre clan into the horde. This can be heavily debated, but I don’t think this is the place as it’s a Man’ari Eredar topic
edit - Bit of a laugh but Ogres are basically 500% scaled gnomes with faces that have been punched 100 times that only a mother could love, with a beer belly hanging out. 
Edit 2 - Not against Ogres just for the record. feel Mok’nathal are way cooler personally, but if they add Ogre they can damn well add Naga for the Alliance
The orcs got with this update a traditionquest same as the humans. In this quest Rexxars father as a representant of the Mok’nathal -who are in Thrall’s eyes orcs too- participated in the gathering of all orcs.
That Draenei think not much of Broken is TBC so not really much older either.
But in Numbers. If we are optimistic the number of remaining High’elves would be 4 digit which is enough for a town which is the whole number of Mok’nathal.
And the Dunemaul during Cata but you are right that this is actually not the correct place to discuss it.
Give me just one example of the Void created something. And you seem very bs here, because the fel is also balance.
Again give me just one example from what we have seen so far in the lore where there is no whispers of the Void that drives you mad. The whole idea of Alleria and the Locuswalker is that you must resist the whispers and thus not listen to the Void Lords.
Again, example?
Except that for Varian it was never stated as i said again, you just try to rewrit facts here, you claimed Varian had his soul destroyed, which is wrong since you can still see him in SL. (Inside sword) for Suramar you confuse the fact that the souls here are used as fuel.
Yeah so you agree that i can also blame dark iron because they summoned Ragnaros.
But its exactly what it is, just read the words the Void use, consume will be here a lot.
But i littéraly said the opposite, they can not be part of it anymore, why would they still do what the Burning Legion did? Again its like if you said dark iron will always be old gods servants.
I dont even know what you are even talking about here you lost your arguement i think…
This was all Sylvanas orders thought, and some rose against this.
Again i can say same for dark iron.
You do know that there is fel orcs and man’ari working for Illidan right? And with this all your comparison fall apart, and felorcs dont do anything for powers, they are just savages with bloodlust, nowhere near as smart as the man’ari.
Ho yes, you also totally ignored the whole post when i said about this being wrong thought =p why do you ignore my posts? =p
All is there =p i never stated that the whole man’ari race will be with us…
Because of Kil’jaeden, and you also forget Gul’dan without Gul’dan nothing would have happenned mainly, and Gul’dan is an orc, and red pox was made by Gul’dan too which is what turned draenai into brokens, dam why you ignore facts and just bring what pleases you?
And dam iread it read this post and answer it please :
But i dont try to do that, i just put facts, is it what you are doing wiht the Void thought? If yes then i have no reason to talk bs with you anymore…
Oout of the topic. Read titile again.
Could also have Taunkas maybe.
Its just a fact thought, devs clearly said that a race like Kul’tirans asked lot more works than the other allied races because they had to work on a whole set of animation for them while the goal of allied races is to use same animaitons as existing races just with a different “skin” (model) its why ogre is “full race” thats the difference between an allied race (sub-race or reskin of an existing race with the kul tirans being the only exception as the devs said) and a core race which will be a full set of animations and a new skeleton.
Your opinion is nothing compared to facts that devs gave thought (see what i said above)
Or you just make a story about a specific kind of Hozens that drunk blessed waters or something and done they can live long enough…please have some imagination, gameplay bend the lore to its will, not the opposite mate. You can ask great reasons with lore and all but in the end the gameplay and the work required to make things will always bend the lore to their will. People who claim lore bend gameplay are a bit clueless. If devs want players to play Hozens they will make it so no matter what the “lore” will say about it.
Its litteraly there; Disorder…
Also the world called “Shadowlands” was written in the Warcraft book lore during 6.2
But there wasn’t anything about the Jailer, only Helya and Val’kyrs
But nobody wanted Shadowlands because the story sucks so hard
I’ll take your word for it. Well not really cause you strike me as the type who would say anything to seem right, but I won’t say that didn’t happen either.
Anyway, even if what you said is true, I want a race that will actually entertain me, not one that spares the devs some time, cause that’s the point, isn’t it? Just saying cause you seem to be getting worked up by my opinion on the subject. We all want something we might like and this isn’t a contest for the dev’s affection or something so no need to get salty about it.
Source? The novel Chronicles volume 1.
The universe that the World of Warcraft exists in is the creation of the Light AND Void its collision with each other.
Void Lords are themselves seek disorder. Like a balance of Order vs Chaos.
Much of the void is to be further diiscovered.
As for the creation elements, It still happens. The Twisting Nether is the creation for ongoing mixture of the Light and Void. But on a much smaller scale than caused creation.
Which is why I mentioned that they forgot their own Lorde. The Fel harms the soul itself. When souls die to the Fel there is nothing left. Varian’s appearance in Shadowlands is most likely a retcon or a lore bloop that they have not fixed.
lol our Shaman perhaps.
Void Lords would create disorder where there Light or Titans imposed/created their version of “Order”. Something will exist just a reflection of the Void.
There is no longer Archimonde Kiljaeddan and Sargeras. But there is still a ruling structure of the Burning Legion. Regardless of if they lost their ability to respawn in the twisting nether.
You are not following.
Comparing Dark Iron Dwarves to Manari/Eredar is like comparing apples to nuclear bombs. One of these things are not like the other.
Cool chart. But not accurate. The Naaru are beings of Light and Shadow. The Twisting Nether is a creation of the Light and Void. The Fel leaves nothing behind it is just pure destruction.
It doesnt need to be a race on its own lol, just give draeneis the option to change to appear like this like they did with night and blood elves
Where it is written that they lost their ability to respawn in twisting nether?
With the loss of argus they lost their jumpstart healer or to say it in WoW terms:
With Argus they would just need to corpse run.
Without Argus they would need to relevel their character from 1 again.
oh. thought that without Argus that they can not endlessly respawn anymore.
which is why the Burning Legion are in such a sorry state.
Demons are still demons. They just need the Twisting Nether to reform and can only be truly killed in the Nether and maybe by those they had a blood pact with.
Argus whas just the bacta tank, the clone factury that delivered an endless supply of bodies and energy where they can get nearly immedeataly form a new physical body.
Without Argus they need to go back to the slow natural recreation of their body.
Source Shaodwlands : The Univers was created by the First Ones, see ya dude, was nice having a chat with you =p too bad that chronnicles v1 got retconed extremly hard ya know =p
But if we take chronnicles v1 only into account, well, as you say its Void AND Light, meaning Void alone dont creat anything its even the opposite as the Void if you take chronnicles for granted is litteraly pockets of NOTHINGNESS left behind by the Light…so i dont get how Nothing creat stuff you know the Void is litteraly Nothingness, (its why its called the Void duh) so yeah there is no possibilities out of nothingness ><
But anyway, yeah this got rectoned meaning you now are wrong, the ones who created the universe are the First Ones.
And i could say the same for the Twisting Nether, since we never got there you know =p i mean the primal Nether, i mean you ever heard of the different Zereth or are you going to ignore Shadowlands lore ever happenned?
But Varian is not the only example as you see plenty of souls in the shadowlands which had their homeworld destroyed by the Legion…and yes i know chronnicles claimed that the souls get consumed by the fel leavinhg nothing behind but this was never really explained like, it is still possible that souls still go in shadowlands.
Also, you confused my first post, when i said that the fel was not an issue and destroyed worlds not an issue it is for the ones who accept it, the fel dosent consume demons, and you can become one yourself from a mere mortal and become immmortal and all! Because when you see Legions worlds, demons dont seem too affected by the fact the world is dying around them.
Well no, your whole kind fought for Ragnaros in vanilla so i will do just like you with man’ari and say all of the dark iron are evils!
Disorder is NEVER used for the Void, since you love chronnicles, read it and you will see words used for it is well, VOID and Nothingness…
First off, they did not lose their ability to respawn, they just respawn lot slower than before since as Sylvanas novel explains the soul of Argus was used by Sargeras as a shortcut to res his demons faster because prior to this they would just go back to the Nether and take a long time to res (the stronger the demon was the longer it would take) demons just cant be killed outside of the Nether thats just stated in chronnicles time and time again.
Second, you have no idea what is the so called “rulling structure” as i explained the demons are chaotic, and the only person who brought order to it was Sargeras who is a being of Order (a titan) without him to keep it together, the Legion wont be ordered again. And again, demons wont let themselves be rulled over by other demons, unless it is some king of ubber demon that can be as strong as a titan then no, they wont be united again. This means they can surely be a group of man’ari who wont want to be part of the “Legion” which was created by a titan they were forced to serve… but well since you claim there is some rulling sructure still existing in the Legion, give me names of members compsing it…
The fel created a whole race…you know? DEMONS thus it created something, thus its not just destruction, as much as you claim the Void created the universe, but not alone lul, the fel created a whole race.
When will you understand that the Void, is nothingness thought? I mean its in its name VOID =p
The thing is, i am not salty about what you want, but what i am concerned about is that you are in the wrong place here, this thread about an allied race, and you come to argue about “i dont want this i want that” again its like coming to a pizza restaurant to order sushis…both are foods but you want another food that the one written on the front of the restaurant.
It need to be a full race, because :
Read the op next time…
I gave the latest version of the cosmology, the one you find the in shadowland grimoir, but still in the chronnicles v1 one there is alos Disorder for demons.
No its not what it was said in sylvanas novel, Argus was just making them respawn faster.
But it is said in chronnicles and its a rule with demons that they cant die outside of the Nether. Its litteraly like if you knew nothing about demons at this point!
Its not true since Mannoroth is not dead in war3 considering you see him again in WoD.
You are oddly adverserial. Like you want to start a flame war about the Lore.
A lot was messed up during Shadowlands that it made quite a mess of the Lore and such.
But Demons and such are natives of the Twisting Nether. The Twisting Nether is just one of the outcomes of when the Light and Void mix.
The soul of Argus does effect quite a lot the Twisting Nether so was an ex factor.
Other species such as Illidan Stormrage came connected to the Twisting Nether so like the Demon Hunters not truly die so probably can not be considered Elves anymore.
My point has been consistent. The Void is a part of creation. You are mistaken in thinking that the Void devours. It’ just “creates” disorder or chaos to the order that the Light attempts to establish.
The Fel did not create the Twisting Nether. It is yet again a reaction of Light and the Void.
The creation of the Fel is seperate to the Twisting Nether. Demons and such are closely connected to the Fel but they use it, not necessarily a part of the Fel.
You pretended that there was no references for the Void being part of creation. I mentioned 1 which was Chronicles voume 1.
Yes it is widely known that they can only truly be killed in the Twisting Nether.
Incorrect again.
The race of the Draenai had a lot of potential and was an important piece to Sargeras plan. Sargeras ceased to be a being of Order once he was altered and changed by the Fel. Before becoming the Dark Titan Sargeras would fight a seemingly endless amount of demons almost as if the universe itself was combating the “order” that the Titans were trying to instil.
The Eredar / Man’Ari was part of that “order” of the Burning Legion and was made into Lieutenants. More than that but Archimonde and Kiljaedden were believed to be the Left and Right hand of Sargeras.
Structure was enforced and Sargeras was strong enough and did have the oversight to establish such structure among the demons.
But the Man’ari had to perform this duty. With or without Sargeras has he does not seem to be the type for micro-management.
Since Blizzard opened the pandora’s box with Allied races. It seems that anybody and everybody wants to add their own allied race regardless of it makes sense or not.
From Tuskar and Murlocks to Man’Aar/Eredar. Some have been pushing for the High Elves to be add as Allied races while you still see some calling for Naga to be Allied race.
It does not make sense to seemingly infinitely grow the roster of the Allied races added to the Alliance and the Horde. While both factions is how the players experience the WORLD of Warcraft. The WORLD itself is larger than both the Alliance and the Horde.
A line must be drawn at some point with the understanding that it is impossible to please everybody. Just like you are pushing for Manari/Eradar others are pushing for Murlocs.
Shadowlands is not really a good reference. They almost binned nearly 20 years of lore and character building. Especially with the Sylvannas redemption bit. ShadowLands done a lot of damage. But maybe Blizzard can come back from it.
It whas an allegory as in the physical Body being the WoW Character and the soul the WoW player as in WoW the player does not die when the character dies.
That I why I wrote maybe. I still do not get behind how exactly Blizzard explained this time travel story.
Not that, i am mainly surprised because you seems to claim you know a lot about demon kind but ignore the basis.
They are more demons than elves now just like all the races who were mortals and took the fel gift.
That dosent change the fact demons are entities of the Fel, created by Fel energies which are in the Nether.
Messed up or not, you cant ignore it is canon now. (Not sure what you call “messed up” by the way, the fact we did not explore 1% of the primal (original) Nether is a fact since before Shadowlands since most worlds situtated in the Nether that we visited were conquered by the Legion and thus not originally in the Nether.
It devours just admit it…like not wanting to aknowlodge that pure fact is just delusional at that point. Void consumes Light, thus it devour Creation, as Light was one of the frist tool of creation and leave behind nothingess, just you try to turn it in the way that look “good” but you wont fool me.
Also btw, souls that are used in the Void are also consumed and destroyed, you know this right. You know, Blackfathon Deeps? You have people being sacrificed for the Old Gods, and their souls are devoured, you even have Aku’mai the DEVOURER…is it not obvious enough?
I never said the fel created the Nether, you try to put words in my mouth here, however, demons are creatures that came into being in the Nether, a place saturated with fel…they are creature of Fel. You just want to again turn it in a way that suits you.
Its not part of Creation, since it did not creat anything in its own.
Eredar* …
He is still a titan, he never changed to become anything else, thus he remain a being of Order, its why he is called dark titan, because he is still one. I mean, just look at how he turned the demons from an unorganized not united band into a force of conquest.
They did not believe it, they were it.
And you take this from where? Source? Again, names? A whole paragraph just to say things without any sources…it become just annoying at that point.
Anything can makes sense nowaday, stop bringing the Lore to say “ho he dont make sense” would you have said that playable dragons would make sense 2y ago? No! But Blizzard wanted you to play dragons; so they made a lore plot for it to make sense…
If Blizzard want somehting to make sense for players to enjoy it, they will find a way, stop thinking lore is “set in stone” you clearly know its wrong.
Go say that to Steve Danuser not to me…because devs dont think the way you think.
But people must stop confusing what allied races (sub-races) and core races are, an allied race is a race that use the same skeleton (rig) as an already existing one, but is different enough in model/culture to be its own separate race. (As Blizzard themselves said Kul Tirans humans are the only exception to that rule. But even without taking this to account, kul tirans HUMANS are HUMANS thats the point of it.)
A core race, is a race that use its own set of animation and own skeleton that no other races uses already. For example the Dracthyr in their dragon form use a skeleton that is not used by any other playable races before them.
For example, Tuskar is an allied race because it use Pandaren skeleton, Nagas are a full race because they use their own skeleton.
Yet again, Dragons are now in the Horde AND the Alliance, so your point is totally wrong since you perfectly know devs do see the factions as the most important thing in the WORLD of Warcraft BECAUSE you are in a dam MMO that work around 2 factions!!! Please just stop being narrowed and accept that the Gameplay is bending the Lore.
Btw, you claim nagas dont make sense? Did you know it was planned to be one of the frist playable race in wow? But yeah, the goal of the GAME is to have fun as the person to whom a answered said, and you go and be unfun by saying “muh lore muh lore no make sense because of muh lore” and i will say “We dont care!!!” because if Blizzanrd wills it, they will do it.
I get it but your allegory can be quite confusing and is complicated for not reasons because :
1 - The fact you say that with Argus demons would be like us players just having to recover their body would imply that the demon souls can respawn at the spot they died which they dont, when a demon die (with or without Argus soul) it leaves his corps behind to rot and its soul return to the Nether to regenerate its body, it stays the same entitiy, body.
2 - Your “they have to lvl from 1 to max again” would imply that they are different beings to me, which they are not.
A better allegory i would say would be that with Argus, they can use the spirit healer res sickness instantly, but without Argus, they would have to find that spirit healer and would have to wait until the spirit healer allows them to use res sickness.
I agree that WoD was a mess (a much more mess than Shadowlands was) because beleive it or not, but it did taint the lore, and we still today feels it on the how it tainted the lore, the unitemporal Legion in Leigon, the “there is only ne shadowlands” in shadowlands, etc all of these were made because the question of the “what about alternative timelines” is made everytime because of WoD.
But for Mannoroth? Actually, the fact he is not dead because demons go to the Nether is NOT a WoD thing but a Legion one, and you can ask yourself what effect it have on the orcs blood pact if he was not actually dead… (and Blizz will avoid this question!)
Devs are numbers people. They listen to market research teams. Learn what does and does not work. Shawdowlands is a failure.
My overall point was that there is structure and organisation within the Burning Legion. Sargeras implimented that using the Manari/Eredar.
Incorrect. The Fel changed everything about what Sargeras once was.
Destroying everything before the Void Lords can alter it is no longer Order. But he deceived himself into thinking otherwise.
Incorrect once again. The Void created several things of its own. Void Lords - Old gods - I think the ahn qiriaj bug race.
Without the Void there is no creation.
Demons are natives of the Twisting Nether. But the Fel is something seperated no matter how bonded they are to it.
The Fel is something that actively harms the Light and the Light is an enemy of the Fel. So it could be more parts Void than it is Light.
A real chin scratcher eh?
How do you think an almost infinite number of demons of the Burning Legion is managed? An army needs an infrastructure - regulation etc… to be maintained and function.
Who do you think was doing the admin work?
Incorrect. Some things do not make sense. Sometimes retcons will damage what was already established. Like Forsaken Druids and Paladin or Draenai/Lightforged Draenai Warlocks.
The above examples don’t make sense.
Incorrect.
Dracthyr are not Dragons. They are the creation of Deathwing. An off-shoot perhaps. The Dragons have never been part of the Alliance or Horde.
Naga playable race might have been an idea years ago. but it does not make sense now.
Of course people like you will say you don’t care. How were millions of people around the world able to have fun for almost 20 years WITHIN the existing lore and cannon?
Yes it is good to expand on what came before, this can be done without destroying it. It is like when activists turn existing characters orientation from h3t3r0 to alphabet / or race swap / gender swap.
Point is there is an existing fanbase - lore - history etc… So just like with say Amazons Rings of Power. Retcons do not always work.
The term “dev” is actually very generic and is used a bit wrongly to talk about all of the peoples working at Blizzard while not all are actually developping anything, the ones you are refering to are called Marketing Analyst, now these people have a little impact on what the writters (Like Steve Danuser) do, Shadowlands being considered a failure is a thing but for the writter it have little to do with how their story is told, its more about themes than lore, proof is, in Dragonflight you still have the Zeereth and the First Ones being mentioned which shows you that for the writters they dont considere these things “bad ideas” and they will never admit it was a bad idea, just like the writters never admitted wod was a bad idea to begin with and you still have call back to wod whenever they feel like it. So what you say is wrong, you must accept Shadowlands existed, because it did.
Yeah and so you will give me names right? Because i am still waiting for names of man’ari that bring that sctructure post Legion…all you do since i asked was pointing your finger at the sky and say “its ther” but you point nothing precisly =p
First of i repeat it, he is still a titan, its litterally in the lore that he is still a titan even after he got englufed in the Fel, there is plenty of sources about that one of them is novel “Before the Storms” and i dare you to find me any source that claim Sargeras being a demon and no longer a titan.
Second, to proove you are wrong, what you mention is actually a mind set he have BEFORE being he took the fel so the fel did not change anything about his mindset he already had that.
Sources?
Death also harm the Light you know? You are soooooo much tyring to put everything in little squares that you are tyring to make me confused, but you wont make me confused with your mumbo jumbo, you know Eonar? She is a titan, being of Order, and she use Life magic? Try to explain me this one now. Actually i know why you love the Void so much, because just like the Void you only say constant non sense and jiberish things that have 1000 meanings only to look smart, but jiberish is jiberish and nothing more than that.
So if i understand how you think, your mindset is, since for YOU (and it was again retconed by Shadowlands) at beginning there was only 2 forces (Light and Void) you think that all the other 4 forces are ONLY results of the 2 first ones? And you have any sources that claim this? Knowing that since there is the first ones WHO CREATED THE 6 FORCES SEPARATLY (hats in the shadowlands grimoir) your whole theory is just wrong sorry…just learn about shadowlands lore if you want to continue this discussion because this will be annoying me.
I know who DID in the PAST because now they are ALL dead, and the Legion is NO MORE, are you so ignorant that you will continue making paragraph to only say things.
We are talking about the present, you claim that NOWADAY the demons are still running the Legion, the Legion have no meaning if Sargeras its creator is no longer around, thats what you fail to understand. By the way, the one who did organize it where :
Archimonde (dead)
Kil’jaeden (dead)
Antoran high comand (all dead)
There is no one now. But you claim there is still, so yeah you annoying =p
Ok so what about dark rangers druids now? And what about Ligithforged monk? What you fail to understand is that you are not making the difference between lore and gameplay. Retcons are made no matter what they harm, look at the centaur from Dragonflight, it clearly made no sense, but they are here anyway! You just dont want to admit that Blizzard to what they want if they want it no matter the established rules are =p the “it makes no sense” is only waved by people like you only to play gatekeepers =p
They are dragons… : " The dracthyr are an ancient race of humanoid dragonkin." Source : Dragonflight Collector. What do you dont understand in the word DRAGONkin
And tell me why? (I know so hard that you will be wrong…)
You mean like having the Night Elves in the Alliance which never made sense back in Vanilla and was never explained? Or having the Blood elves in the Horde which also made no sense? Or maybe having the Draenai be able to be dk? All these things i mentioned go agaisnt the “canon” but since they are here since 20y as you mentioned, no one cares about it anymore =p You just try to sound smart again but you are not very aware of what old canon was =p
Because its not what i am doing when i give a freaking story lore quest line to introduce the man’ari in the factions?!!! Have you even read it?!
Ever heard about Chromie? ><
And again, Blizzard, dont care about the fact of it working or not…also do you know the fact you can play a draenai is because of a retcon? But knowing how ignorant you are about the Lore i bet you dont even know what canon was before tbc retcon =p
Ho and last part :
Just stop using that word please, specifically when its to say a wrong thing right after…
Why are you wasting your time on that Troll in DI costume? 
Like Erevien, lives in a fantasy world, replacing Lore and facts with headcanon
Click the poster’s character portrait, choose view activity, in the upper right corner there will be a box that says normal, click that and you’ll get a drop down, the last choice is ignore.
If their profile is hidden you just manually add them to your Ignore list.
Go to your own Summary page > Preferences > Users > Ignored > Add [charname-realm]
Save your sanity
