Matchmaking is the only real fix for the M+ problem

Not a terrible idea for follower dungeons to use it, but you would be a minority that did.

They can do something similar to Method’s dungeon guides. They just explain the most prominent mobs/abilities, the ones you actually have to look out for. Usually it ends up with 4-5 points of interests prior to each boss, and then the boss itself.

It’s a free market, which is fine.

Daddy Blizzard does silly things when they get too hands on.

How is the system ignoring them?

They can form.groups with it.
They simply aren’t entitled to get in every groups they want.

I think follower dungeons are max level content, don’t they? :thinking: I have at least never done one for leveling. It is also how i am doing the weekly dungeon quest when it is something like dawnbreaker or city of threads.

This is why follower dungeons exist, i thought. To get into max level dungeons in your own time. On maybe a spec you are not familair with. Or just because you do not know the dungeon.

So the vast majority is doing well in the current system and you think Blizzard should make a worse version of it?

:thinking:

My common sense tells me that average players having to click 5 times per 60 seconds to apply for different groups and getting denied for 30 times before entering a dungeon is not good :wink:

Main priority of design should be the broad masses that play, not the most hardcore audience. They should only be a consideration, not the only priority

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I think a point of criticism for Mythic+ and its difficulty progression is that it doesn’t increase linearly as much as it’s a wall from the start and then a fairly flat line afterward.

I mean, if you do a Mythic +1 then you get all the exact mobs and bosses as you get in a +10. They cast all the same spells and use all the same abilities, and they do it just as much and just as frequently on +1 as they do on +10.
The only real difference between the two lies in the numbers, i.e. the health and damage. But that’s counter-balanced by players likely having higher item level in a +10 than in a +1.

So effectively, when you do a +1 you’re presented with everything that Mythic+ has to offer up to +10. You get everything right out the gate. You basically have to learn everything in that +1 space. And if you can manage that, then everything beyond that up to and including +10 is really just an incremental increase of numbers that you are meant to counter by a corresponding increase in item level.

The learning is all packed into +1. It’s not like Blizzard gradually evolves the gameplay experience from +1 to +10 to be more encompassing. No. It’s the same. So it’s a wall of learning from the start and then fairly smooth sailing once you master that wall of learning.

And that kind of design is obviously screaming to the heavens for improvements.

Take Blizzard’s StarCraft II.
In that game Blizzard recognized that if a player was going to try out 1v1 rated games for the first time, then they would be overwhelmed because it would be a full-on game experience with all the units and buildings and commands that the pros were playing with on Grandmaster, even if it was their first Bronze game ever.
So Blizzard’s genius was to simply slow the game speed down. So it’s the same game experience, but the game speed on Bronze is a lot slower than on Grandmaster, and as you progress beyond Bronze it goes up, so there’s a slow incremental learning process as you have to handle the game at increasingly faster speeds.

Blizzard has none of that for Mythic+.

If you were to be critical of the learning progression in Mythic+, then I would immediately question why the mobs cast the same spells just as a often and frequently on +1 as on +10. They shouldn’t. They should cast way fewer spells on +1 so that players actually get to learn what each one does and how to react to it. Then you can slowly increase that enemy mob behavior as you go up from +1 to +2 to +3 and so on. But having the exact same full-on game experience in a +1 as in a +10 is a god awful leaning experience. That’s just a wall.

So why does it have to be Mythic+? Because if you did a brainstorm session on the issues with that game design with regards to “casual” engagement, you could fill the whole whiteboard with yellow posters in less than 10 minutes.

One thing is having follower dungeons. Which we can discuss later on if you want.

But turning them into a WoW 101 tutorial where people have to learn that “fire burns” and “if my HP reaches 0 I die”…

This stuff:

This is the type of “hand holding” you give to absolutely brand new players that have never seen WoW. Not even a trailer of what wow is. And they just made their 1st wow toon ever.

And that person, lives in level 1-80. Beyond 80 there is plenty of stuff to do, with plenty of difficulty levels.

But a mob that starts “casting” something… at level 80, whoever you are… you should know he is not doing it just for show… :smiley:

I am not sure what is wrong with it. We are downloading Quazzi plater profile at the start of the season or color mobs ourselves.

How much of that is learning… vs. simple convenience. You download the Quazii one cause its so much easier than doing it yourself. Which you could probably do as well.

And if you even know WHAT a plater profile IS. Why would you even need a tutorial guide on what type of mob is a caster, and what mob is not… And even make a special NPC venue for that…

And I will even add: Do you really need a plater profile unless you are doing high keys? I would argue that you dont.

That take is quite frankly misguided and it sounds like a nostalgia trip. Blizzard explicitly stated in Legion that Mythic+ was designed for PUGs and guilds and not exclusively for one or the other. Ion has said himself in several interviews that the system was intended to be scalable and accessible to all players regardless of affiliation.

I am making my own profile because i am 1: not using plater and 2: it helps me to do it myself. Typing in a name and coloring it is a cognitive helper for learning (or how do you say that in english).

It is something like this, AOE is blue, green is caster, and i have a mini-boss or special thing color too.

https://youtu.be/grXHJDkL8eI?t=886

But i actually know nobody who is so stupid as me who is making it himself. Everyone is just downloading the plater profile and done.

The new player does not have the plater addon. That is why it would be nice when the game at least can do something for the player.

But we are coloring because it helps a ton while playing.

That more or less is how it is. In +2 the stuff dies faster so casts less. ToP Bone Spear guys get one attempt to cast in a +2 so even if everyone overlaps, stopping it once is enough. It might not even be a oneshot in +2

In +12 if the group doesn’t kill them and runs out of stops and both casts hit the tank it can kill them.

Okey and why is it that they get declined?

Most of those that get declined will probably be DPS player.
There is nothing to change that there simply to much DPS player and the same player will sitt in q all day waiting.

If there are soamy that always get declined how can it be that they don’t form there own groups of “rejects”

Absolutely… 100% correct and I agree.

I would go even further still. Each of us has our own profile. If I play with yours, I would go bananas. You play with mine, you go bananas.

I argue the contrary. You are doing the optimal thing. Its others that are too lazy to do it. For high keys.

A new player is not doing +14s. Think of your own progression in WOW.

You started somewhere. And did harder and harder things. And at some point, you needed external help from an addon. And that is exactly what you did.

That point is not on a M2+. I can guarantee you that.

And as I said before. Plater profiles are super personal. You color mobs in one way, and it might work for you. But not for others.

Especially new players. They should get just 1 color, or none at all. Simple things. Focus on 1 thing at a time, not 50 at once. That’s the challange of a +14. Not a +2. And defently not where they are supposed to learn those things, in level 1-80.

It doesn’t really matter. What matters is the experience they have while playing, and that pug experience currently is not fun and considerate enough for average players. I think Blizzard should be more humble and react to how players play the game, not design something and tell us from their ivory tower that what the average player wants to play is wrong, while still providing that avenue to play with LFG in a terrible way

For the record: This is my profile.

https://ibb.co/LD9zdbZP

No Quazi plater. No DBM. Nothing.

Just the basic WoW default UI. VuhDoo on default settings. And 1 WA (targeted spells) https://wago.io/s08yL_PCP

That’s it.

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thats very bad shopping experience though

i wouldnt even consider going back to such shop ever again if i meet with something like this irl .

im that kind of pwrson that when i see que of liek 5 people and only 1 cash register open i would shout to open 2nd one - and they usually do .

thats literaly their job so i can do it efficiently - thats what they are paid for :slight_smile:

Not really - I’ve only played wow since 2021. I’m just going by what friends have told me.