that could asily change if blizzard invested heavily into AI tanks and healers.
its age of AI - this coming into game is just a matter of time .
look how popular dvelves are with Brann AI .
cant speak about folower dungeon or lfr because i dont do them - but i dont hear anything negative about it so far
And if m+ was meant to be puggable, why then can’t a large proportion of people be able to do a +2 in time? And how will solo queue solve it? No amount of mmr will solve a player problem.
The fact is, if someone comes along who is not willing to try or improve, queues up for m+ and bricks the key, they’re wasting everyone else’s time in the group. This happens right now without a solo queue.
Why would they spend money making something when people already pay them to do the thing?
I’m having to buy the game and sub to it to tank keys. Are the AI tanks going to do that? Are they going to be store whales like me?
The path to hell is paved with good intentions. I mean, when Blizzard staked out new accessible designs back in WotLK like queue systems and raid sizes and difficulty options, it’s hard to imagine that they had the foresight of knowing the accumulative effects of those designs 17 years later. I’ll forgive Blizzard’s designers that much, because they are effectively navigating the game’s development in blind. After all, who’d have guessed 20 years ago that we’d still be playing WoW today? And can anyone guess if we’ll still be playing 20 years from now? And what does the game design of today need to be if you have to account for how the game looks in 20 years from now? That’s a tall design order, even for Blizzard.
I do think they’ve done a good job with WoW, even if I don’t particularly like the place the game has ended up in, or the road it’s taken. It still speaks to Blizzard’s achievement that the game’s still here in the condition it is. And that we are here.
Okay. Almost no design seems holy. I mean, it’s not like they’re going to throw our characters out and replace them with racing cars because Formula 1 is getting popular.
But I remember the Q&As Blizzard had years ago with Ion where he effectively changed his response with regards to borrowed powers, where the design was inferred by many of Blizzard’s design principles that have so much history behind them that you don’t question them. But Ion and Blizzard ultimately did change their approach on that and today we have a brand new design inferred by less traditional design philosophies.
I mean, the design hallmark of borrowed powers was that you don’t want to increase complexity over time. They changed that. We got Hero talents. That’s a permanent increase in complexity. They’re not going away next expansion.
My point with that is just to say that they’re obviously steering their design toward accommodating player feedback. If players don’t want borrowed powers and they instead want a sense of permanent power progression, then Blizzard will clearly accommodate that desire in their design, even if it is the anathema of Blizzard’s core design principles.
I think we’ll see that with Mythic+ and a queue system as well.
Stuff dies faster because it has less health, and because players often overgear the lower difficulties, so they indirectly become even easier than intended as you can just power through it, leading to a later spike in challenge when players don’t get carried by their gear in higher difficulties.
Again, that’s not a good learning experience. That just sets you up for failure at a later point.
LFR is probably the best example of that. If people did LFR at the intended item level, then it would be a pretty decent stepping-stone into Normal difficulty. But most players in LFR are pretty overgeared by the time they step into it, meaning that it becomes an AFK snooze fest. And when those players then step into Normal or Heroic, then they struggle because they didn’t learn anything on LFR as they just blitzed through everything and now their gear doesn’t carry them anymore.
It’s an awful way of presenting a learning experience, because you’re not learning. You’re getting to ignore the learning by being able to blitz through it faster. That doesn’t teach you anything for the higher difficulties where you can’t just delete things fast.
I see that… so success… so much AI… 
It’s cool, but don’t act like you’ve got the full picture just because your friends told you some watered down version of wows history. wow has a decades long history.
Instead of parroting what someone else says, maybe take a deeper dive into the games history. Your friends might not even understand the full story, they’re just giving you their own limited perspective. Don’t base your whole opinion off second hand info.
When I got left out to dry in ToP +12 I thought it was very unlikely I would survive. I wasn’t sitting there thinking “What the heck! Two freight train casts hitting me at once can kill me in +12!?”
I already knew Bone Spear hits hard and I knew I had no way of stopping it.
clears throat
“STUPID AI TANK PULL MORE, WHY ARE YOU SO GARBAGE. YOU PLAY LIKE A BOT YOUR FACE SMELLS LIKE HOTDOG WATER STOP DOING KEYS STUPID AI TANK. KICK HIM”
And please don’t be patronising and rude to me.
How am I being patronizing? I’m not trying to be rude, just pointing stuff out.
Zenoutlaw is rude and patronizing to everyone. Except when you are rude and patronizing to him. Then Zenoutlaw gets angry and sais “no fair”.
I didn’t know the Dunning-Kruger effect made you mean also. 
But you get what I’m saying, right?
In a +2 you’re getting the exact same boss with the exact same mechanics as in a +10.
Chances are that a player isn’t going to learn everything about that boss the first time they do a +2. They’re mostly going to be overwhelmed by the sheer volume of mechanics that are constantly happening.
They can still beat that boss on a +2 because the consequences for failing the mechanics are pretty forgiving, but as a learning experience it’s very much everything in your face at once.
If that player then does a +5 afterward it’s the exact same boss with the exact same mechanics operating in the exact same way. There’s no incremental learning to that.
So the design is one where all the learning happens from the start. There’s no incremental progress to it. You can learn all there is to learn in a +2 just as well as in a +10.
The only thing Blizzard changes as you go up in difficulty is the consequences for failing something.
In a +2 the game will ask you if you have learned whenever it does a mechanic. And if the answer is no you get a slap on the wrist.
In a +10 the game will ask if you have learned whenever it does a mechanic. And if the answer is no, then you wipe.
That’s the difference in Mythic+ difficulty progression. And that’s the only difference.
The stuff you have to learn in a +2 is the exact same as in a +10. Blizzard don’t differentiate the design of the dungeons just because you do them on different difficulties. They’re the same. So it’s full-on learning from the start. There’s no gradual increase of mechanics being introduced. You get everything immediately. Good luck.
Which is honestly pretty poor design. That can obviously be improved upon a lot. The design space is clearly there.
That’s true, yet what is wow? It’s in many ways an aberration currently. From Classic until Legion and maybe a bit BFA, wow was primarily designed to be fun for the average joe.
After Shadowlands wow’s design priority changed, where the main audience, they made the game for, was the hardcore and the esports crowd with everyone else being an afterthought. Only in TWW they realised they made a gigantic mistake and added Delves and try to make the game more accessible by providing combat addons in-game.
Blizzard knows already they messed up, and now it’s getting fixed step by step.
This is not school. You don’t have to raise you hand before you ask a question. Just fire away.
M+ starts at +2. There’s no much thing as a +1
Respectfully everyone that sits here and wants to tell me ai controlled “players” are the way to help my multiplayer game can hit there to every day for a year.
We have brann cause it made balance easier since the content was planed to also be done solo or by two healers and with brann they don’t need to balance classes or the delves themselves around different availability of kicks and stuns and such things
I’ll edit it so it says +2. Thank you.
sorry everyone knew what you meant, i just have to be insufferable sometimes 