It’s still a challenge to learn though, and that’s really Blizzard’s challenge here. How do you design the game so that players learn how to play it so they can participate in the endgame activities and be successful at them?
That’s not easy.
And I can’t help but think of the RTS genre that struggled with this for ages, and arguably collapsed in popularity because it didn’t figure it out. The 4x genre is also notorious for its steep learning curve, which has always hamstrung its popularity.
And WoW definitely also has a huge challenge here, and one that has only grown over time. Because way back in Vanilla the learning curve was very slow and very incremental. Leveling started out with some very simple basics and you got a lot of time to slowly learn and adapt before the game would add another button to your action bar or introduce another game mode or system.
Today you’re blasting to max level in no time and being flung into endgame activities before you’ve even acquainted yourself with much of what the game entails. And then you pretty much have to perform to the community expectation within a very short time, otherwise you’re deadweight. That’s an insanely steep learning curve with harsh consequences for any degree of failure.
Blizzard has to do something about that. And I think especially Holly Longdale has indicated that this is the major focus of the WoW team going forward. And Mythic+, given its presence in the game as a core endgame pillar, is definitely not going to go by unnoticed.
It’s really not about being able to learn or not being able to. Do you think I can’t just pull up a guide website and watch a youtube video of a content creator? It’s that people don’t wanna invest so much time and sweat into wow, but still have a good time with the game.
It’s not about what someone can or can’t, it’s about what is good and how people want to play/approach the game. There are casuals in this game, who work as Surgeons, lawyer, civil engineers, economists, etc. irl, or just play many other games than wow too, and it’s not that they can’t learn wow’s endgame system, it’s that they won’t and Blizz should make content for its broad audience, not for a small hardcore crowd that breaths Mythic+.
Think about Nintendo and Super Smash Bros. Super Smash Bros is designed for the casuals. Yet some people still play it as an esport.
Mythic+ is designed by Blizzard as a competitive pro-game for MDI, yet most its players are casuals signing up to groups in LFG. Think about it! It’s stupid.
You say he acts like only his opinion is right and at the same time you say that the system needs to change like it’s the objective truth and no one should fight that
I work in a medical field with 24h shifts often and I still got the time to learn how to play my class. Nobody is asking “theorycrafter level of knowledge who knows how to squeeze out every 0.001% they can find”. Basic - which pedal is which class knowledge can be learnt just in 5 mins if you at least bother to check wowhead.
Dont confuse people who can be bothered to at least try to understand what they are doing but dont play often and people who will just sit on their keyboards with their butts, burp and expect Blizz to give them their bis items for “being such a good boy”.
M+ is designed to be an appropriate level of difficulty for the ilvl it rewards and the frequency it rewards it, that difficulty is above the threshold for queued frictionless content.
It’s not some grand conspiracy.
If you want frictionless queued dungeons you have heroics.
You clearly don’t get it. It’s not about the class, it’s about the player’s skill. BDKs can absolutely crush high keys if the player knows their stuff. You’re just looking at surface level performance. It’s all about execution. They might take more finesse in high keys, but they absolutely destroy when it comes to damage. Unlike the other tanks, BDKs can pump serious DPS. DKs do that better than any other tank.
No, it’s that during Shadowlands and especially since Dragonflight, Blizzard completely dedicated wow’s PvE endgame design to competitive play. They think now that just adding delves makes the average joe happy, yet the average joe was the core audience during Legion, Wotlk, etc. and thex signed up to play world of warcraft, not to play single player Delves. Why pay a sub for a MMO just to do Delves?
Delves are a good addition anyway, but they can’t be the whole game for the broad audience.
Yes and learning your basic 1-2-3 before you start playing is apparently a “huge investment”.
Every game I purchase (both single player or multiplayer) I take my time to understand my UI, game’s goal and the main idea on how to play it… not just bash your head on the keyboard and check what pops up on the monitor…
So if learning the concept “what is an interrupt and your classes most basic of basic skills” is such a huge investment that it makes you a “no-lifing tryhard” then maybe you got confused about the main audiance of WoW?
Maybe try those 1-3 year old toddler games where you need to guess the color and the game still treats you as a “winner” if you guessed it wrong because you are such a good boy? Since that game doesnt require any “learning beforehand”…since the game’s goal is to actually teach you the colours.
Ilvl gets you only so far. You are correct thoigh that the abilities don’t change from M0 to +1000. However what does change is the dmg. So here is the learning cutve in +2 you learn to kick the one shots, in higher keys where gear no wonger servers as a safety net (this could even be a +5 for undergeared players), you start learning that you not only need to kick the Voley but also stop the Bolts. Ofc thats not all, but the gist is that every new level you climb you learn how to deal with something that you found trivial in the orevious level.
Right, and that again becomes a question of learning. Or rather, the application of it.
I mean, right now it comes across as a burden on the player. Read those guides, watch those videos, copy those builds, practice those rotations.
But that’s not a fun game experience, if you can even call it a game experience at all. And it takes a lot of time. And during that time you’re not really getting the game experience you were dreaming of.
A good game tutorial is one you aren’t aware of, because then the player isn’t aware that they’re learning – they’re just having fun playing the game.
And Vanilla WoW’s leveling process is basically one long tutorial. A very good one even.
These days Blizzard are in the same pickle that the RTS genre was in years ago.
When the RTS genre was introduced it was pretty simple. Warcraft: Orcs & Humans and Command & Conquer are not very complex or difficult to learn, let alone play adequately.
As those RTS games fostered an audience of fans, those fans began asking for more depth and complexity in the RTS games. A natural request from devoted hardcore players.
So the RTS games evolved to cater to this audience of Korean gamers and other hardcore nerds who had played the RTS games since their inception.
But as a result the RTS genre ended up so far up its own butthole with complexity and difficulty that it became completely inaccessible to newcomers.
So as the gaming market expanded in the 2000’s the RTS genre completely stagnated as all the young kids saw the steep learning curve and the absolute madness going on on the screen and nope’d out immidiately.
And so the RTS genre went from being the king of the industry to being almost wiped out.
And it feels like the MMORPG genre, and WoW in particular, is falling into the same trap.
Constant catering to the existing audience consisting of increasingly hardcore veterans who want more depth and complexity, makes the game completely inaccessible and unappetizing for newcomers and returning players alike.
And if the RTS genre can conclude anything, then it is that there’s no healthy future in doubling down on the wishes of a small hardcore audience. That just kills growth.
It’s about being randomly globalled if you get bad parry rng. It’s not about player skill, you can’t mitigate that. The best players in the world don’t play it for that reason.
If BDK was the best tank…guess what? The top keys would be BDK and not VDH
But thats only if you are planning to play the end-game pillars such as raids, m+ or ranked PvP.
If you just want to casual stroll around the world, collect pets, do WQs…whatever then you can pretty much can almost auto-attack through that one. No complex rotations needed. Blizzard even offers you a default talent setup if you “dont have the time for it”.
But if you want to play in the end of the end-game then there are expectations for it. I also play FFXIV on a super casual level from time to time, we got those savage raids which statics does(and where the best of the best gear is located). I was tempted once but I understood that if I really want to get into there then I need to go beyond “just press W” with my job and start to learn my proper raid rotations with consumable usage and stuff. Since I had no plans to try to play FFXIV “more seriously”, I continue to happily do roulette regardless if I am making 1000001 mistakes in my rotation…if you can even call it as a rotation.
And its pretty much same for every multiplayer game out there. Check any shooters. Want to just “shot for lols without caring if you are good or not?” they got bronze leagues, beginner levels, casual play…whatever each game calls them. But want to play with the big boys in grand master, platinum league or start your competitive career then you better start practising your shooting skills cause nobody will title you “grand master” simply for… buying the game and login in…
