Mecha gnomes instead of sethrak as an allied race while horde goes with vulpera?


(Marrowrot) #251

While I think that the alliance should get something other than mecha gnomes, I don’t think it would be the devoted sethrak.

Also talking about what skeleton they use as base is not really relevant as blizzard said they will use whichever they think fit, and we already seen alliance skeletons on horde etc.

Now for the lore reasons why I think the devoted won’t join the alliance over the horde.

While the alliance does meet them and save the life of Vorrik, secure his keystone and break a faithless siege the horde does a lot more.
The horde also secure a keystone and save Vorrik’s life.
They then go on to reclaim ancient holy sethrak relics, go on the offensive against the faithless to even defeat the faithless leader Korthek with the help of the vulpera and Vorrik working together.
Sadly Mythrax is still revived (although he and Gh’uun will be slain later by the horde), and then the horde venture into the temple of Sethraliss and help her resurrection.
After all this is done we can even see two sethrak npcs appear in Dazar’Alor, one of them a priest of Sethraliss, which is also present during the coronation of Talanji. Showing that at least some Sethrak are starting to visit and making bonds with the Zandalari again since they’re ancient allies. Not to mention that Rakera, one of the two trolls aiding you through whole of Vol’dun is now on the Zanchuli Council. Rakera also seem to have been a bit influenced by the sethrak faith as she have literally said “Were it not for the mercy of Sethraliss, I doubt we would have made it out of Atul’Aman alive.”. This were before Sethraliss revival even.

Also in the new children’s week quest for the zandalari child, one is to go and meet the “sethrak queen” as the child heard tales of Sethrak that want to be friends and their loa that want peace. Which shows how the current relationship between the Zandalari and Devoted currently are in my opinion.


(Daltor) #252

They’re based on upright Orcs, load up both models side by side in model viewer and you’ll see.

Not an excuse. Even fantasy has suspension of disbelief.

I rolled ones purely for the druid forms, that and I couldn’t stand the male’s voicelines.

Expect the unexpected. We got Void elves out of nowhere, so I’m not counting anything out.

I’m not sure if this is a Forsaken play on words or not, amusing none the less.

You released him from a cage when he was in no imminent danger.

This would all be very compelling, if the Nightborne didn’t already exist and blow logic out of the water when it comes to allied races.

Also, stop editing your post so much. I get through reading half of it and then it changes.


(Marrowrot) #253

Even if not immediate danger he was still captured by the faithless and would most likely face death by Korthek if not saved. Ofcourse you could argue that someone else could have saved him, sure that’s possible, but that’s now how it played out so I’d say the horde saved his life. but I agree he was in a much more dire situation when the alliance saved him.

Sorry about that, had to fix a few typos and such.


#254

I’d say the Belf/nelf swap means there is no guarantee for a faction lock based on model, how do we know theyre the only exception?
I get how this makes them an easy AR candidate but I dont see why its faction would be so set in stone and KulTirans beat the Idea of ARs being exclusively reskins of their main race counterparts which would also cast uncertainty

This is probably the shared part alright, basically the outpost quests besides this one?

How are the regular Sethrakk their counterpart however? Because Worgen/Goblin being from the same expac? If so didn’t look at it like that before

This could be said for most of the horde with the exception of possibly a majority of the Forsaken tho

I hope itll be more complicated personally outside of ‘well this is this ones reskin so this one has to be x-y-z’, I thought the nightbourne/void elves were the most interesting ARs for this reason until KT and Zandalari


(Northgrave) #255

It’s possible they started with an upright orc, but they don’t share any animations anymore, just tried it out of curiosity. It’s the closest any allied race has got to being completely new, that’s for sure.

Suspension of disbelief doesn’t really work with WoW. It’s a fantasy world driven completely by the rule of cool. I still hold my point that Blizzard should never be allowed to make a half of a race and ship it as finished.


(Daltor) #256

Only recently, this trend only started happening from WoD onwards, there were hints of it in Cata, but it came in full force in WoD.

Those are morals that EVERY company to adhere to.


(Northgrave) #257

It started in TBC. Butchering W3 characters just to get some cool raid bosses (though I liked it because they were elves), the absurd draenei/eredar retcon to give a new cool shaman race to the Alliance, “cool” spaceships everywhere, cool armor and weapons that didn’t make any sense and so on.


(Lilura) #260

Doesn’t change the fact they’re the allied race for humans.

This is so mindlessly reductionist it’s not even worth a pinch of dirt.

Maybe it’s because we hear it straight from the mouths of both Vorrik and Sethraliss? Multiple times?
Have you…played the game?

Honestly all you need to do is give them different eyes and conventional proportions; even without breasts it’d be dead obvious. If you took the breasts off of a female nelf and compared with a male one, there still wouldn’t be any confusion.

Absolute nonsense; believing that statement is like believing there aren’t any ARs in development, despite proof of Vulpera being in the works since beta. We have seen Ally skeletons on Horde once, for the nightborne/velf model switch. Exception, not the rule.

There are very, very few races on the Horde that practice monotheism. The Sethrak worship only Sethraliss, devote everything they are to her, while most of the other Horde races are polytheist or practice ancestral worship. Monotheism is most prominent on the Alliance. As for wanting peace, only the Tauren are actively seeking it on the Horde.

I do too, but they have followed a specific pattern to a tee so far, and I doubt it’s going to change, regardless of the smoke and mirrors Blizzard keeps throwing up.


(Lihkan) #261

wtf man :frowning: i like sethrak alot and would love to play one, sucks we are getting a reskin of the most disliked race in the alliance, that lorewise does not even make sense, blizz should add factions/races that actually make sense, like those fish people from MoP or broken draenei


#262

Actually gnomes have been around since Warcraft II and to be honest the lore makes as much sense as any other race, but yeah, I agree with hating them. So creepy.


(Lihkan) #263

i meant mecha gnomes, makes no sense


(Azuriida) #264

those junk gnomes worth 2 of those races


#265

I should have made it more clear, I meant mecha gnomes too. Tech is their gimmick and gnomes are descended from robots.


(Northgrave) #268

And? Humans are the heart of the Alliance. If you don’t like humans, and want ugly monster races, the horde is there waiting for you.

But it’s still true, isn’t it?

Yeah, before they send you to butcher thousands of their people in a civil war, that’s not really “peaceful” by any means.


(Lilura) #269

I have no idea where you’re drawing this conclusion from. Kul Tirans are the human allied race. That’s a fact, regardless of the new rig.
And I guess that means Worgen are actually Horde then.

No, it isn’t; just to use your example, Btrolls practice ritual sacrifice, mutilation, slavery and so forth. That’s tribalism.
That is leagues different from the Sethrak polytheism around Sethraliss.

Oh no, they’re fighting in a civil war they didn’t start and aren’t the aggressors in so they can overthrow a warmongering dictator and reunify their people; how not peaceful.
Do you think a peaceful race just lays down and dies when attacked?


(Northgrave) #270

Could be they are the worgen allied race. After all, Kul Tirans are the descendants of Gilneans and Genn was pivotal in bringing them back to the Alliance. Considering their skeleton and animations are completely unique, it would even make sense.

They are just cursed humans with human culture trying to reclaim their lost human kingdom. And half of Gilneans are not even worgen. That’s completely different when compared to actual beastmen like tauren or sethrak.

The most similar people to sethrak, culture-wise, are zandalari. Are you saying the zandalari are an Alliance race?

They don’t even attempt to have any dialogue with the faithless. Not once in the entire storyline. They just fry them on the spot with lightning. Seems pretty bloodthirsty to me.


(Lilura) #271

Genuinely seems you’re trolling at this point.

Zandalari are polytheists and practice a similar but lesser degree of tribalism as btrolls; they’re darkspear but have an actual civilisation.
Sethrak have demonstrated no tribalism.

When we look at context yes, but this is what happens when you’re reductionist and say all beast races are Horde. That ‘prerequisite’ doesn’t exist, and the Sethrak are far more civilised than the majority of the Horde races.


(Northgrave) #272

Why? We actually had a discussion whether Kul Tirans are human or worgen allied race like a month ago, I’m not the only guy who thinks they could be a worgen one and the actual human one, Lordaeron-related one, is still coming. None of my points are wrong.

They don’t practise tribalism, they have caste system, if I recall correctly. That’s not tribalism at all.

Because Sethrak have almost no development. They are just an afterthought race in Vol’dun with no female model.

All actual beast races should be horde, yeah. And werewolves are not real beastmen, they are just cursed humans.

Not even the savage night elf worgen or Gilneans who didn’t undergo the calming ritual should classify as beastmen, because they don’t have any “men” part, they are just beasts.


(Lilura) #273

Your points aren’t wrong no, but speculation without evidence to back it is worthless.

So far as I’m aware they still practice ritual sacrifice and voodoo hexes just like every other troll. Plenty of tribes have castes.

Having gone through almost every inch of Vol’dun researching them; no, they have plenty of development; for crying out loud they were a focus at Blizzcon when the expac was first announced. And they do have a female model, Sethraliss has one; and regardless AR files are encrypted now. They could very well have an unimplemented one.

So, basically, you personally have rigid standards about what can and can’t be Alliance, everyone else must conform to the ‘truth’ of your opinion, despite Blizzard themselves stating a desire to break that notion with future ARs?


(Northgrave) #274

There’s no way to contact Blizzard anymore, sadly. Few years ago at least we had twitter. We will just have to wait if we get the Redeemed or not.

Give me some examples of sethrak culture. I did all quests for both horde and Alliance, yet I can’t recall anything special.

Ideally, yeah, but even I know that’s not how it works. But any beastman race will get the pandaren treatment in the Alliance, because they just don’t fit so they won’t do anything of note after they join.

We already have so many races that it’s impossible to give them all a spotlight. It’s much better if you can link the main and allied races together (like Stormwind humans + Kul Tirans + Gilneans could be, or Lightforged + normal Draenei). A non-related beastman race would just be a foreign element introduced into an already bloated mix. Que in night elf fans screeching about sethrak getting spotlight while Tyrande is nowhere to be seen for a patch or two.

They stated a lot of things. Like that the removal of tier sets will lead to much more detailed gear, or how we will be surprised about how Teldrassil happened. At this point, I don’t trust anything they say anymore.