Mecha gnomes instead of sethrak as an allied race while horde goes with vulpera?


(Daltor) #143

We already have our quota of fat, stupid allies with stupid dances (moonkin). The ogres would have to wait.
But on the otherhand, it would ruffle so many jimmies in the Horde that the Alliance got ogres and not the Horde.


#144

They’re called Allied Races, not Sub-Races.

“By that logic, are Moonkin related to Ogres? Are Saberon related to Worgen? They share the same animations but have no link whatsoever.”

I’ve answered that, so suggesting I’m arguing against this point is nonsensical because I haven’t at all-- I said the fact of them being off-shoots is not really an issue. My point is the work has been pretty much done; Vulpera are HIGHLY wanted as playable; Blizzard have STRONGLY hinted at them with the Brewfest icons normally reserved only for playable races.

I don’t care if all the ones so far are in fact sub-races, to me it doesn’t rule out the probability of getting Vulpera, or indeed less likely Saberon (because again all the hard work is done with the rigging and animations).

Going back to Vanilla? Irrelevant don’t you think, given how that was a rather long time before Allied Races were even an idea.

Restricting them to being only other versions of existing races is extraordinarily and needlessly restrictive, and I’m sure Blizzard feel that way as well.


(Imsoret) #145

Compared with expansion for expansion. Were they lower in WOD? Correct me if im wrong. I just keep hearing “Subscription numbers have never been lower”


(Brigante) #146

I know that was a jab at some of the wilder excesses of the BfA storytelling so far, but it doesn’t make sense, even considering how Bat guano insane Sylvanas’ writing is at the moment. She likes more meatshields, I mean that is evident by her actions in game, She’s not going to turn down more…

Also what would Anduin have to do with it, he’s not even on the same Continent…

Anything that does not involve Nathanos gets my vote. I’m still hoping that he is killed off by the Alliance at the end of this expansion, I loathe that character so much. But even leaving aside my hatred for a set of pixels, he’s not exactly the Inspirational type is he? He’s always just put in place to insult and belittle the Horde ‘hero’ who for some inexplicable reason doesn’t just turn round and knock him the heck out. He has zero people skills. I can see why most Farstriders didn’t like him in life… No, if you wanted someone currently in the location who could use a charm offensive it would be Rok’han, He’s important, as the Darkspear leader, and he actually seems to be able to talk to people without alienating them.
Even so, not a chance, Gnomes, even Cyborg Gnomes have zero reason to work with the Horde, not when their kith and kin are with the Alliance. The Gnome ‘throne’ such as there is one, doesn’t even need much usurping now that the High Tinker has become a popsicle, though that is a good point, who now -is- the Gnome racial leader? I’m hoping Kelsey Steelspark.

I know your post was a jibe at Blizz’s writing, but I answered it seriously anyway, because I am a contrary and whimsical soul…

Come on…do you seriously think that is the only reason the Nightborne joined the Horde? Also just gonna pick up a couple of points there, the Alliance did not cure their addiction. That was the ‘Hero’ and their Class Order Hall. The Alliance, in the person of Tyrande, were quite happy to throw the Nightborne under the bus when it came to their mana problem. I mean seriously, if you wanted someone to turn you off joining your Faction, Tyrande is almost at Nathanos levels. “I fear you may become another Elisande” “Whoa Whoa Whoa, You waltz in at the last minute, do us a solid by helping liberate our city, alongside the Sin’dorei, with whom we have much more in common, by the way, and then, and this is the supreme irony, you feel entitled enough to say that you worry I will turn out like someone you met like, five minutes ago, who I have been fighting for years, you for days, You then compare me to Aszhara, when if you had to look for a Kaldorei figure with a messianic streak, a cult of personality and a determination that they are right, even when they are very very wrong, you just have to look in a mirror”

Which is why they are not knocking around Orgrimmar, but Silvermoon instead. The Sin’dorei are the reason they joined the Horde, and they actually express this in game. You ask Thalyssra what she thinks of Baine’s arrest and she basically says “I’m going to talk to Lor’themar, see what we think” Not “I’ll talk to the Warchief” but “I’ll talk to the other Elven Leader, who I am taking a lot of direction from, and see what he thinks”

There is no evidence that they actually love Orcs, not that they were exposed to any of the savage excesses of that race, being in their bubble, The Orcs are just another race they had not encountered before their seclusion, like Blood Elves, or Dwarves, Gnomes, Draenei, Humans, Goblins, Forsaken, in fact anything under 10,000 years old.

Also ‘Cringe’ is not a word that stands on its own. Cringe makes no sense in that statement. ‘Cringeworthy’ is the word you were looking for, as in something that makes someone inwardly Cringe. A behaviour or activity cannot be ‘Cringe’, that simply isn’t how the word works. There already exist words to state what people think that ‘Cringe’ means these days, I’ll give you one for free; ‘Awkward’. ‘Cringe’ is a physical action in the immediate sense’ it is not a feeling or emotion or anything else, it is a Physical action, Something cannot -be- ‘Cringe’, a Statement cannot be ‘Cringe’ They can be ‘Cringeworthy’, but not ‘Cringe’ That’s a physical action…

THeir entire culture based around Cenarius? Where did you get that idea from? It is based around the Earth Mother, and her two eyes that chase each other around the planet, An’she the Sun, and Mu’sha the Moon (I don’t think they bothered naming the second moon in their cosmology. Cenarius was important to them, as their tutor in Druidry, but no, their culture is not based on him.

Also there were no Tauren Druids at Teldrassil, in fact the Horde Druids are rather implicitly in Silithus, trying to deal with that massive sword sticking into the world…actually dealing with important stuff, unlike some Bear, Pigeon, Stag, Elf hybrid who got distracted and is now fighting guerilla warfare in Darkshore. Grr, so fierce, so much grrr. If only he actually cared about the planet, he could do some great stuff… Oh, wait, hang on, Alliance waves hand Whatever he does is Good and fine.

Malfurion. World’s biggest slacker when it comes to doing his job…

Did you…miss the part where the rest of the Horde including Baine were massively unhappy with this? Like, Massively unhappy? To the degree that Baine is so unhappy with her Undead Shenanigans that now he is in jail over it?

I think the word you were looking for was ‘Kul Tirans’, But to be fair, as someone who main’s Horde, you fill your boots, have Ogres, I would not bat an eyelid, I for one don’t want them,

Going back to Vanilla is basically playing in a separate universe, It isn’t Azeroth, or World of Warcraft, it has no bearing on the Game world.

I heard the entire country of Estonia turned into a Pigeon, a massive one, and is currently orbiting the world. Some bloke on the Internet said it, so its true. I have no evidence of this, but a lot of people say so, and its true, I’ve never been to Estonia, maybe it -has- turned into a giant pigeon and flown off, I mean lets face it, Nobody has released any official figures or data about it!"

No one knows what the subscription figures are, If you listen to the people going, “this game sucks, I’m taking my ball and going home!” then you could think so. If you listen to the majority it is like “Actually, its…pretty much the same as at Cataclysm, no noticeable rise or decline.”
“But all the Forum Threads?”
"Oh, right, yeah, ignore those, it’s just a small bunch of Raiders and PvP’ers, they do this every expansion, have done since TBC they confuse ‘My Opinion’ with ‘EVERYONE SAYS!’ Let them have their rant and carry on playing the game that we find fun!


#147

Oh my god, you write too much.

No mecha gnomes. No no no. It’s the Same as asking High elves for alliance, nope!

Blizzard could add some customization for gnomes to have some metal/cyber parts that’s it, but not making it a race apart!

Please make something new different from what we have.


#148

The wisest post in this thread. Thank you for posting.

In a few months you’ll have to add “Mechagnomes are Gnomes” and “Gilgoblins are Goblins” to that list. :slight_smile:


#149

Vulpera are asked a lot : https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/vulpera-discussion-megathread/18751


#150

Anybody who thought Alliance stood any chance of getting Sethrak clearly have never played through the Vol’dun Horde story. The Horde assisted the Sethrak far more than Alliance did. Sethrak are clearly neutral with slight Horde “debt”, but neither are strong enough to justify one faction in an absolute setting.

I can’t see why Blizzard would add Mecha-gnomes as an Allied race either. Gnomes obviously aren’t well liked - they’re the least popular Alliance race (maybe after Worgen? As I play on Argent Dawn Worgen are pretty popular but I’m expecting that’s not so true outside RP servers) and constantly at the butt of jokes from the community of both factions. Adding an alternate gnome would just be a total waste of time, effort and would be a missed opportunity to add something that would be more successful.


#151

There’ll be gilgoblins and mechagnomes, it is known.


(Lilura) #152

The Horde aided the Sethrak out of convenience, and failed them as much as they helped them, completely failing to stop Mythrax from resurrecting and from stopping the faithless stealing the keys in the first place. Only the Alliance has had a purely positive relation with them, Vorrik owes his life to them, and the Alliance expressed interest in working further with them. Additionally, Horde ideals simply do not match with the Sethrak culture, especially Sylvanas’ Horde.

Regardless of how popular Gnomes are, every allied race is associated with a pre-existing race, if not culturally then by their skeleton. Kul Titans may have a new one but are still a human AR. Gnomes will get one, and it will be mechagnomes, unless you can think of a superior alternative?
I still find it stupid that people think Mechagnomes and Sethrak are mutually exclusive. We don’t have only one more wave of ARs. Even after Mechagnomes, Worgen and Pandaren will still be missing an allied race. While it’s questionable if Pandaren being neutral means they will or won’t have an AR, Worgen absolutely will and Sethrak are the ONLY race that fits, and already use their skeleton.
Blizzard has said that they base ARs off of player feedback, but that’s nonsense and Vulpera prove it. Every AR has been planned and developed from the start, and the only one lacking an obvious option right now is the Undead.
Sethrak are coming, and it’s foolish to dismiss them.


#153

Thats what the ingame story told, and to answer your points of Tyrande: She didnt even deny their request to join the alliance, she put them on hold, and their reaction was to join the horde without hesitation.
Without. Hesitation. Thats literally how their allied race missions starts. “Tyrande was not enthusiastic enough in our eyes, we are going to join the horde”

You can try to twist this around as much as you like, but the hero was the representative of a faction. Just because your character has become an archdruid, it didnt stop being alliance.
Even IF i was to give any level of credit to this argument, it still wouldnt justify just randomly jumping into a frikin war against the alliance. What is the justification for that lol? Disliking Tyrande’s personality?

Even if all you said was taken into account with “waltzing in at the last minute”, none of that forced them to take sides in a war. Its a race that was withdrawn from the conflict for god knows how long. Not only them, but literally all broken shore races.
The neutrality they had for god knows how long was still an option, instead they apparently had an insatiable bloodlust and needed to kill something quick. If not horde, then alliance.

No. There is none. You know, except for the entire concept of abandoning neutrality that lasted for a millennia, for absolutely no reason other than just wanting to murder something.
Seriously. No reason is given why they would need to join the war. None. They could have gone back to minding their own business, but that was NOT EVEN CONSIDERED.

In their belief system Cenarius is the child of Mu’sha and Malorne. He is borderline part of their creation mythos and not just on a druidic basis. They were also the first race on azeroth to be taught druidism by Cenarius himself.
Comically enough Malfurion was the one who reintroduce them to it and call them into the cenarion circle.
So lets just say that there are several rather deep connections there, all of which were taken heavily into accunt by blizzard when they went ahead and made them do a fart in the wind over burning a world tree, cause apparently none of their ancestry suddenly mattered to them at any level.
We got some children to burn bruh, it takes precedence over everything else. Sorry.

Sorry, but that argument wont fly and you know it. There was not even a tiny blue fart of a mention of any kind of reaction to the entire prelude bs event of the burning of teldrassil.
Its hardly even acknowledged by any of the horde races and maybe this is the moment where we should all take a moment and remember that the horde is an alliance between races which up till bfa had internal politics and relationships, which were suddenly whisked away by the genius team at blizz who had taken a wand and magically made them nothing more than scourge 2.0 “Coz we gotta follow the warchief, coz the horde iz ze only thing we gotz”.

My **. Every race within the horde had their own agency, their own culture, their own reactions, agreements and disagreements, all of which were killed with the start of bfa, to the point taurens didnt give a sht about the burning of a world tree.

Yeah, insert comedy Baine into 3-4 ingame clips shaking his head and sighing about the direction of the horde.
It sure makes up for the fact that if we went by the lore, there would be borderline civil war after the tree burning within the horde, but oh thats fine coz “Baine was extremely unhappy with it”. Indeed. He was shown sighing about in like 3 clips! The horror!

The burning of teldrassil did more damage to horde lore and identity than just about every previous expansion together, including pandaria and wod.
It used to be always about how the races interacted inside the horde, they had their internal politics, every race had their own thing going from culture to beliefs.
ALL OF IT was destroyed for the sake of the tree burning.
Suddenly everyone and everything was “we got nothing left but the horde” as if 1 expansion after garrosh and a civil war, suddenly everyone had lost their identity and had been reduced to braindead scourge 2.0 “muh banshee lady commands, we must follow”.

Oh boy you tore up some old sore wounds with your post.
I suddenly recall every vivid detail how disgusting i had found the story telling of bfa, starting with the tree burning. I suddenly recall all too colorful that this expansion was done by people who never as much as played wow nor had any idea about any of it in the first place.
The writer they hired for the before the storm novel had taken way more time to understand how races interacted with eachother or what personality each leader had. She probably did a more accurate portrayal of wow than every person who ever worked on bfa.

EDIT:
/rant
I flew off the handle… its hard for me to contain my disappointment with how this cherished world has been handled by its own creators… WoW even to date is probably the largest singular mass of potential that has ever existed on the mmo market. And its being killed right in front of our eyes in a tirade of design decisions that cant be described more accurately than “minimum effort, maximum profit”.
98% of the content that is in wow is not utilized. Its discarded the moment the next expans… ah f me i will just shut up… i wont stop writing about this ever if i go on…


(Azuriida) #158

Well since we get gnomes horde will get those underwater goblins :slight_smile:


(Trelw) #159

@Imsoret: That claim is… complicated. Data on China is pretty much non-existent, so the absolute total of subscriptions is probably at a very low level (some people have claimed China is by now down over 5,9 million from their peak), but as far as US and EU regions are concerned, the (admittedly very limited) public activity update data on WCR seems to indicate that those regions were at their lowest in May 2016 and also very close to those figures in November 2018. However, judging by data from last few months seems to suggest the situation is either flat or very, very slightly improving compared to December 2018, which showed evidence of being better than November.

Naturally, not having access to Blizzard figures means I am not able to guarantee to be 100% correct, but as said that is what the data I have access to suggests. People are free to disagree with me, but I have not seen reliable evidence to suggest otherwise.

No, not exactly, outside Blizzard that is. Even my best calculations are just estimates of absolute lowest possible for US and EU. Having basically no data on China makes world wide total impossible to know.

I did my latest counts about a week ago and some of that data is posted in another thread. If someone is interested, I can try to locate it and link it here, too…


#160

If Vulpera is going to be next horde allied race I am going to quit the game. We are supposed to experience epic stories, raids, heroes in mmos not some furry beta dog looking alike weirdo.


#161

Let’s be honest here. They both look creepy like hell.


#162

While you cant make accurate statements about sub numbers, you can about engagement and interaction. With the exception of pretty much the largest youtube channels, the content creators left the game behind to near unprecedented extent. It almost looks like destiny at this point.
Or take a channel like talesin & evitel which bumped to 3 million total views per month when bfa started and is now down to 1. Their sub growth is barely in the positive at this point.

You CAN pull site statistics from websites such as wowhead, which i encourage you to do. Wowhead bled out 20-40% of its visitors in the last 3 months depending on what data collector you ask.

At this point WoW on Twitch is lead by 1 or 2 people like asmongold, and i recommend you to bellular’s “we need to talk” video in regards of 8.2 where you get confronted with the rather cynic approach of players on 8.2, which the majority of the community gave up on.

The list goes on, but the sad fact is that you dont need sub numbers to know that bfa dug itself a pretty deep, dark pit.


(Athiyk) #163

The problem with the whole neutral story is that the Horde was helping them out with the Sethrak in Vol’dun, and still do by providing caravans for them to move war resources around. The Alliance in the Vol’dun incursion attack them for this reason. In light of that the chances of them to be neutral is pretty small.


#164

My beard would make for a better allied race than robognomes.


(Imsoret) #165

Well thank you anyway for a good answer :slight_smile:


(Trelw) #166

@Aerensiniac: However, I can cross-reference my earlier WCR stats (and those of other frequent CP submission makers) and the notes I have made in my older posts. Trends work in many different ways and because I can compare against myself, I can draw certain conclusions. They are not foolproof, but if ingame activity seems to be going up, it is extremely unlikely that user numbers would be free falling.