Missunderstandings about TBC, get your facts straight!

So, I see a lot of ppl posting here about this and that about TBC, pros and cons. I wont got into detail which is better for certin players, classic or TBC. However I will try to sort of some “truths” ppl here are tossing around for their own agenda.

Classes in raiding.
So ALL classes are viable, in EACH tier. I see ppl posting like “mages aren’t even brought into SWP”. This is untrue, how do you supose to kill Muru withouth locks and mages? They do the same AOE, and you need maybe 5 of each, for Muru for example. And mages are on par with every class. In fact each class except boomy can top the lists on dps on certin fights, even retri (enchance shamans have a rough time winning dps aswell, altho they are obv needed for WF). But raid composition is way more important in tbc, so on certin bosses, yes you might sit out a rogue due to the fact that he/she isn’t needed for this boss. But not an entire tier.
Furthermore group buffs are more important, so a boomy for example is always brought if possible for their 5man buff for ranged casters. So to be clear, ALL CLASSES AND MOST SPECS ARE VIABLE IN TBC RAIDING! Ofc with the exception of pure pvp specs, those have no place in pve, for obv reasons. Rogues are the only class that doesn’t bring group buffs or similar, which means that a usual swp-comp will only fit 1 rogue, maybe 2.

PVP gear and classes.
Pvp gear isn’t viable for pve to the same extent as in classic. Only class that directly wants pvp items for pve is a feral tank, cause resilience helps them beeing crit immune pretty easy. For any other class, resilience is utter useless in pve. And remember, the honor system is different, so pvp is actually more viable in tbc cause u can farm the epic pieces from BGs, cause they cost honor, not like classic where it doesn’t matter if i do bgs 2 days a week, for 3 years straight, you will never get any decent items cause you wont reach above rank 6-7.
However you need skill and dedication to get the arena gear, that ofc also will be bis each tier from a pvp standpoint.
Furthermore on pvp and viable classes, sure some classes are harder, but the fact is that each class here can also reach gladiator, but some classes have really, and I mean really, strong combos. But don’t toss out “so only lock, warriors and druids will be viable in arena”. This is untrue. Mage / rogue is an insane combo, priest / warrior aswell. Its about skill in tbc arena more then classes or grinding 14 hours a day, but ofc classes do matter cause the balance is still where it should be. Which means your combo have better odds vs some, and some not. And ofc there will be a meta here aswell. But the point is that pvp is more accesable in tbc, for all, in many ways.

Dungeons:
Due to badges beeing a thing, ppl will run daily heroic even when they are bis geared, cause they can use those badges for epic gems, and certin gear thats needed for some fights (like resistance gear, threat gear vs avoid gear for tanks, etc).
This means you will see more dungeons going on, for same reasons in classic, that those pre quests (which are INSANE in tbc) are forcing ppl to do’em, aswell as badges making it viable in each stage of the game. Badges are ALWAYS needed, even for epic gems to be sold for good money or for your own upgrades.

Professions:
These are pretty much the same value as in classic. But instead of engi you want LW for drums as a raid prof. And engi isnt as fun in tbc as in classic with all its gimics reduced in viablity.

I’ll leave the discussion about flying ruining the social feeling in tbc (imo it did) and other similar topics, cause thats a preference of taste and what you like to do while gaming. But my point here was to straight out FACTS about classes in pvp and pve.

So lets all stop making up fake news about tbc and stop with “this and that i remember, bla bla bla”. This comes from someone who cleared swp in retail, but also played tbc for years and years on private servers with several classes full bis in each specs. (yes numbers might be wrong on these servers, but the mechanics is pretty much the same, so class roles are still needed for optimal raid setups, aswell as raid mechanics will be the same on pservers as legacy servers, altho with minor tweeks as we also have seen in classic).

Peace, and have fun in classic while it lasts! I sure will!

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Great post! I can’t wait for TBC! <3 <3 I really look forward to BGs being fun again, as people don’t need to farm 20 hours a day for pure honor, but will do it for fun! <3

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The thing I didn’t like about TBC PvP was the way resilience was implemented. It reduced crit chance and crit damage, so it kind of gimped any spec that ran on crits, and contributed to DoT classes being powerful, and those 30 minute games with unkillable resto druids.

Don’t think I’ll play mage, doesn’t handle so well outside of the good arena comps it is in, as you rely on freeze for damage (which is quite easily broken in TBC, esp with stuff like rogues having 2x interrupts etc), looking forward to playing TBC ret with Stormherald though!

There is no reason to take more than 1 Mage for table and int buff. Warlocks have better single target AND aoe damage.

Also the more warlocks you stack to keep up imp shadowbolt debuff the further they pull away from mages in single target damage.

99% of raids will also have a shadow priest to further increase warlock damage.

Not only that, improved fireball and frostbolt talents reduced the damage coefficient of each spell by 2/4/6/8/10% where as the mirror talent that reduced shadowbolt cast time did not, so by the end of the expansion mages were so far behind they were pointless. I doubt if this was taken into account on private servers because it was ridiculous when it was current too.

In equal gear warlocks would always have more spell damage due to fel armour self buff which again increased the gulf in performance between the two.

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Igank, sure the min maxers will do that, but I really don’t think most casual raids care too much about that. A lot of people actually just play to have fun together :smiley:

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did orginal poster even play tbc?

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Yes I agree with this. You can probably tell I mained a Mage the first time around and I’m still bitter about it :joy: I’ll probably end up going Mage again though because I was born to play Mage! :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

Ye I did as i wrote in the post. The point it that each class is viable. APES etc brings like 18 warriors for speedruns, does that mean most guilds does it? No, eventho its optimal perhaps. Mages will have their place, but maybe ppl will prefer warlocks, same as warriors beeing more viable then rogues in tbc. Point is they STILL ARE viable, and not gimped as boomys are in classic for example.

By that logic there’s no reason to take more than 1 (or maybe not even 1) rogue in Classic since Warriors outperform them by AQ/Naxx and Rogues bring nothing Fury Warriors can’t do except for disarming traps in BWL.

As the poster above me said, most guilds in Classic don’t bring 20, or even 15, or even 10 warriors to their raids, despite the optimal Classic raid comp having that number of warriors as DPS.

Exactly. From min-max-optimal view, rogues should completely leave their posts for fury warriors. Their only important moment is in supression room.
Or if I remember well, there were many topics about useless hunters, who are needed only in BWL due to fight with chromaggus.

Fortunately, I would say that over 95% guilds don’t play like this,even if they could subsitutes every non-optimal class for optimal one.

Also, it easier to gear up different classes, than 15 Warriors. Loot, shouldn’t be waisted.

Well, stuff like Onslaught Girdle and Mana-Igniting Cord should definitely be waisted :sunglasses:

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Considering classic raids have been absolute faceroll so far there is no reason to stack classes. If tbc raids are as difficult as they were back in the day (I’m not expecting that at all, but I am hoping they are) then you MAY see more guilds stacking classes to maximise damage due to enrage timers. Depends on the server I think. Some are more generally hardcore than others.

Guilds managed to do SWP with mages just fine in 2008. What makes you think they won’t now?

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That’s not true, resilience did 3 things.

  1. Reduce chance of being crit.
  2. Reduce crit damage done to you.
  3. Reduce dot damage done to you.

About getting your facts straight :grin:

Not true mages sucked in TBC

Im pretty sure she dident.

It reduced dot damage in Wotlk, not TBC

Again, by that logic, rogues suck in Vanilla too. Odd I never hear that, though.

Yeah, wasn’t nice to play. Great in RMP and 2s, but outside that, PvP against most classes wasn’t fun because of most classes gaining loads of anti CC, while we didn’t have fingers of frost or deep freeze to do damage outside freezes (which were subject to DR mind)