How does Niya’s herb conduit score for Feral? It seems with PS regrowths it has more or less a 75% uptime fighting a target dummy. The barrs don’t come out that high I feel. So compared to the interrupt dot plus potency conduit, how close is it?
yes, the guards are “top” now, any melee class with a similar ilvl easily kills a bear.this is not a tank this is garbage
feral really needs some love from blizzard , if you dont have a guild you cant mythic plus higher keys since balance druid overlords on top , if you dont have arena partner you cant pvp since balance druid overlords above us , if you wanna raid you cant cause you dont play balance .
This is slowly starting to piss me off. buff us and give feral spec raid utility cause this is just unacceptable , i feel like that the class design team is legit doing this on purpose at this point
6 Likes
This might be an unpopular opinion; but I think snapshotting should be removed from feral by now…
Idk it might make it feel less forced “stress” to try maintain x at highest proccs?
Maybe make it easier for average joe to get higher dps too.
Bleeds need a big buff and plz make us less dependant on night fae / special case Kyrian. :
I also do not like the odd change they made for rake dmg from stealth. It just made it more confusing at times imo.
I also wish for a glyph for the lost “saberon” (dont remember name atm :< ) look.
We used to have a talent to make us into this other form and it was pretty cool.
Im not the best feral out there or even close to, but I enjoyed cat more in legion.
Feral has always been my fave but atm I feel mega forced to play chikin…
Eventho I actually do more than decent dmg as cat - it just does not bring anything to group…
Chikin ar least has innervate and aoe silence.
1 Like
I Personally think Feral is in a good spot damage wise. We rarely see Feral in the top 5 dps in previous iterations.
Having a niche or utility is a different discussion, this isn’t something that will ever change, since this will require a whole redesign of a spec which i dont think will ever happen, and also since Feral aren’t the only ones who don’t have a niche role or provide raid wide utility. A lot of other specs also have this issue, but feral can always switch to balance while other classes might not have this luxury. I doubt it will change.
Just having innervate or some raid utility won’t be enough to put feral in the top meta, cause feral is still a melee dps, and we got no niche, Unholy DK has execute and amz. And I it will be boring if feral becomes the same as Unholy.
And let us forget about pvp, you will always have the top tier pvp specs and then the rest. Not to say feral is bad they’re not bad. But I just think WoW isn’t a pvp game the devs always balance according to raid statistics. Pvp is just an extra sideline thing joining the ride. You will be wasting your time complaining about pvp balance in a pve game.
I’ve been a feral main since Cataclym, the only other spec I’ve played was affliction warlock in WOD, other than that been a Feral all my wow life. And I have never had any issues with doing end game or group content with guilds and friends.
Right now I am experimenting trying to pug every dungeon as a Feral, slowly doing all +8, +10, +12 keys. Up to now with +10 I’ve never really had any issue joining a pug. Will see how things go on +12.
Let us not confuse feral is frown upon because our other dps spec balance is too good for the current raid tier and is range, and not because feral is bad. A very big difference depending on perspective. Balance will need to be nerfed until it is a meme for Feral to ever get picked over balance.
It’s not really a damage issue per se, it’s the ‘utility’ - Boomkin literally now brings everything we did AND is ranged, which is better for some fight mechanics. On top of that, they just do more damage than us. We were recently 2nd ranked melee DPS behind WW, but we’ll never get a spot without a Darkness, Shout, Cloak, WW debuff aura type ability.
At this point we’d need something like getting LotP back to redress the garbage reputation we have, but then we’d probably become an auto-take in melee and carry on the problem.
It’ll never happen, but they either need to sack off raid buffs entirely, or make them fall into catagories of ‘Ranged DPS’, ‘Healer’, ‘Melee DPS’ or ‘Tank’ where all specs that fit those catagories get those abilities. I.e. like Mages having Bloodlust. WIthout them going to this model, there’ll always be a skew on which specs (or classes) are ‘allowed’ to go raiding. Case in point - some warrior specs aren’t ‘the best’, but they’re definitely getting a spot because of having Rallying Cry.
M+ as feral can be summed up as ‘declined’, ‘declined’, ‘declined’, ‘invited - oh youre not boomkin, kick’. Though that’s probably more a product of ‘I must only take MDI meta specs for my +3 key’ than anything else.
3 Likes
Saying feral “rarely be in top” is kind of… odd.
Feral was muuuuch better of as late as of Legion.
I have mained feral since vanilla - without a break in sub (until now).
The changes I have witnessed and experienced over the years, as well as being pushed aside more and more until I am now back in the spot of Vanilla “Oh you aint X specc? Out.”
Boomies have;
Range
Aoe silence
Stampeding roar
Innervate
Offheals
Rebirth
High dps
Feral have;
Stampeding roar
Rebirth
Offheals
Melee
See any difference here?
Melee is in a terrible spot overall, so that part is a negative on the feral list.
Offheals are same for boomie and feral.
Stamp roar is same for boomie and feral.
But otherwise boomie brings much more and that includes higher dps (and arguably easier too).
We NEED utility.
Feral is basically the worst melee you can pick if you ever wish to pick one.
I have been pugging my entire WoW career on the side of playing in a hardcore enviroment, and I can easily tell you that pugging now as feral has NEVER been harder if you exclude Vanilla.
It makes sense to bring a UH Dk;
AmS (can solo clear some bad stuff), Grip, AoE shield, res, decent dmg.
It makes sense to bring an arms/fury warrior;
Rally cry, battle shout, intmd
It makes sense to bring any rogue;
Aoe stealth, sap, stunlocks
Feral brings nothing and needs to play a COMPLETELY different “game”, with gear and range vs melee, to be worth bringing.
The other classes are still good to bring cause the specc they have still bring something useful.
The only specc comparable is Survival hunter as they as well play quite different, and are also in a bad spot dps wise but still bring traps and FD-pull possibility (which can lead to skips), so they - like Feral - bring something from their class that their other speccs can do better, and their other speccs can do more dmg as well.
If you play with friends or guildies;
Nothing is a problem. Ever.
Its the same in work in small companies
- a lot of people get hired cause they know someone, even if they might not be as good as someone else.
Same functions in guilds and friend groups.
They take you cause you are you - DESPITE you gimping yourself and the group by bringing something with the least value in the game.
Never ever say “X is fine” and mention you play with friends, cause we are trying to up a class for itself - not for what our people (And we ourselfs) are willing to put up with eventho its worse or bring nothing.
It has no point in the argument since everyone knows friends 》 everything.
Some of us lost friends over the years, both due to quitting or changing factions, or even to real death, and we just no longer have that luxury.
We try make new ofc, but its much harder to even get in the paw in the doorway if you bring the attitude of “Hi guys, I bring a gimped thing to the group that provide less dmg, melee and no utility”…
I make friends cause I am a multispeccer and thus have value cause I am able to play any role needed and hence become a swissknife in their pocket.
Feral being something I enjoy is just a side problem, cause I dont argue if I see we need more dmg or I am asked to change, cause I KNOW I would bring more to the table as chickin… and I am not really keen on gimping anyone for more than “chill” stuff.
Feral pugging is Decline - at levels that require more out of the classes.
Such as higher M+.
Ofc you CAN always do anything with friends, nobody argues that.
Its just a fact you could bring more - even to that group of friends - if you did something else than feral.
Bro you just answered my statement, I said “rarely” not never. I know they were good in the last moments of legion. Hence why I never said never.
I don’t know if you misunderstood me or what, but my whole point is no matter what utility you give feral, boomies will still be preferred cause they are range, and they fit a spread cleave / aoe niche.
For feral to be picked over boomies you will need to have boomies nerfed to the ground. Which is unlikely.
Enhancement have a unique utility but you don’t see people picking them for meta. They would still prefer the range elemental.
But if the utility we get is so broken and ridiculously op, then yeah we will become more popular but I highly doubt that as well.
edit: with regards to pugging, i’ve been on a full on pugging m+ this expansion and usually it is get declined 20-30 times before you get an invite. But we not the only spec with this problem, it is what it is.
Sis/Bro/Dude/Lass/Mate/Buddy - my point was I have NOT experienced feral being not-good in majority of expansions.
We brought stamp roar as a utility too, so we were bringing something only we (and a bear) could do.
We were useful.
Now they gave Stamp roar to all speccs.
Feral lost the 1 unique thing it had.
I disagree nerfing boomie is even on the menu of fixing it.
LoTP = nice.
Stamp roar for feral/bear only = nice.
Give our bleeds a buff = nice.
To be extreme we could even give feral an aoe interrup like “Roar - interrupt everything within 5yd” or something new like that.
Plenty have said it already, there are fixes around.
None of them involve gutting chickin.
I personally also think snapshotting needs to go, but I 100% get that might be just a me-view as some others enjoy that added layer of complexity.
1 Like
Seriously you don’t read do you? When did I say feral are not-good? All I said was they are rarely on top, as in top of the logs. Feral have been decent and I’ve never had an issue with them. I have always liked feral and I don’t think there is any thing wrong with them, but the public perspective, which really isn’t blizzards fault but the community but can’t be helped so I accept feral as it is.
I think our discussion is based on different things, I am talking about meta here, having these
LoTP = nice. (depends on how broken or op this is, if it is mediocre, wont change anything)
Stamp roar for feral/bear only = nice. (nice but won’t change anything)
Give our bleeds a buff = nice. (we don’t need buff we are already overtuned this expansion, I believe feral will get weaker as the expansion goes)
These Won’t be enough for us being meta. Why cause we are melee. I just gave you an example of enhancement shaman they have a unique utility but still elemental are preferred.
If you just talking for the sake of talking not about changing the meta, then sure give us more utility so we have something at least. Having more is never bad.
But my point is nothing will change the fact balance will still be preferred over feral in the meta.
I guess we just agree to disagree then? Cause i do read what you type but my answers are not what you want.
Meanwhile I feel the same about you - that you seem to miss things I say or perhaps just not understand me, perhaps we talk different lingo.
Communication = hard.
I disagree that LoTP would be either OP or underperforming/lackluster, it can be made right but it probably wont - sure.
Stamp for feral/bear only would give us back one unique thing we had.
I also suggested an AoE silence so we are equal to moonkin in that sense.
Yes - we are melee.
Yes - melee is bad compared to ranged, for all classes.
This whole idea of “Meta” is never going to be - fixed - unless all classes do the same stuff or their unique abilities bring enough to the table to change your approach in viable ways.
Aka; giving everyone equal unique powers in different regards (see Aoe stealth vs Timewarp).
Meta is always going to be “AoE stealth, Biggest dmg, Timewarp” or similar otherwise.
You gave the example - but you also did not mention the exact spell.
I have actually not kept up with shamans in idk how long and its arguably one of the classes - among monks - that I have least grasp on changes with.
You are free to be 100% over-explaining when mentioning what you think X class has because of this reason.
I try to point out said spells (like aoe stealth) rather than just say “that spell X has”, to be clear and make communication somewhat easier.
Over the internet - it always goes wrong anyway.
I am not a magician and I never argued I have the solution to everything nor that my solutions are the best even.
Its merely things that would improve things as they are, and many others have said the same points I say now.
Im merely parroting, one could say, in most cases… cept for the AoE silence idea which I have not seen been made by someone else, but I could simply have missed that, too.
Arguing is not solving anything, I do not wish to fight anyone.
I just wish for improvements and I believe giving feral these things would improve our situation.
I will brief all I am saying so you can understand,
If you talking about just having something unique sure give us something, i dont mind.
But if we talking about meta, balance will always be preferred regardless of what blizzard does or gives us.
I don’t disagree with you since to me it seems you just want feral to be some what unique. I have no issue with it.
But that won’t change anything since the public follows the meta, and nothing can be done for feral to ever be preferred over balance in meta other than killing balance.
I am not trying to be difficult just find it pointless of all these people asking to be like, "feral needs to be equal to balance or to be preferred over balance, this will never happen.
In general I think you do agree with me in this sense. And I do agree with you, don’t mind getting extra uniqueness never a bad thing. But I think it goes against blizzards bring the class not the spec mentality.
Okey lets for a second pretend this is possible -
(I will use fantasy-numbers to make it easy - so please put no value on the numbers themself - just what I try say with them.)
Balance - does 100dps. Is range. Has aoe silence. Has moonkin aura. (3%crit).
Has Typhoon.
Feral - does 100dps. Is melee. Has aoe silence. Has lotp.(3%crit). Has stampeding roar.
Both/any druid specc: if specced into Resto affinity - has innervate and aoe entangling roots.
Would this not bring both in line of usefulness, the 1 change being Range/melee - where feral and balance both bring something good.
I am not asking for feral to be mega meta, I am just hoping they make things better - for ALL claases and speccs alike.
I wish Meta did not exist- and it would not if similar stuff happened to all classes.
We most certainly agree on things - we both wish Feral to be in a better state, I am sure.
It isn’t really a number thing for meta, it is niche required for downing bosses.
If feral gets an execute and a raid wide cooldown and a raid buff maybe they will be meta. Unholy is so good right now cause of AMZ and execute. But then there will be no fairness if feral take up a dk spot so you have balance and feral but no dk. That is why blizzard went with the bring the class not the spec design.
Moonkin are good not cause of dps numbers, but of their spread cleave dot and the convoke being so good. They are the new shadow priest, How shadow priest worked in bfa, in SL is now moonkin. Single target dps feral are much better than moonkin, but dps alone isn’t everything for meta it is the mechanics around how the damage is dealt that is more important. I believe feral are overtuned to be honest, we dishing really high dps on single target fights. Even more than unholy dk but they are meta for raids, cause the execute damage of the last % is way more important than overall damage. And plus they also have amz.
I don’t think you have mega meta or just normal meta. You have meta at the top everything else that isn’t.
The issue is in general there is more melee specs than range specs and the meta is more about range. So you will always have melee specs left out. We can wish for feral to be better utility wise but blizzard won’t make a spec have something that the class doesn’t. The whole bring the class not the spec thing.
edit: just wanted to add SL has been really great with how specs are compared to previous expansions, so I really don’t see the problem. It is fine to not be in a meta just play the game.
1 Like
I mean what I wrote was not AT ALL about the numbers themself… I just expect people to “get stuck” on “false” numbers unless I make it SUPER OBVIOUS that the numbers are not for calculations - just for inserts.
Read the entire post/suggestion. Please.
When I say numbers I didn’t only mean dps numbers, also the numbers of utility or anything you can weigh or compare against one another “numbers”, You trying to match feral number to balance number by matching how many types of utility, how much dps, you trying to make the numbers equal between the 2 specs. And i’ve address that it isn’t about how many stuffs feral has vs balance. it is about how the spec is played and the mechanics of the spec works. (hope you understand what I mean)
I’m going to say it again, even if feral has the better numbers, more utility, more dps. Balance will still be preferred, cause of their range, and their ability to spread cleave. Which are 2 very good things for the current m+ and raid tier. It is about how the specs work not because of the number of things the spec brings (dps / utility), yeah sure these are added bonuses to have more utility, but balance right now is too good to not take (not because they have roar and innervate) but because of their starfall and multidotting from range.
edit: easiest to think about this is, shadow priest have PI and is range dps and has stam buff, but why are balance picked over shadow priest, they have a much stronger and better utility than balance.
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Buff bleeds please
5 Likes
Make Rip great again. No more degenerate auto-refresh on Rip - make us spend our combo points on it and be rewarded for doing so. No more bloodtalons, it is unfun, clunky and outright impossible to use in pvp.
14:18
2 Likes
I can’t believe Skillcapped put feral in A tier. We are B tier at most imo.
There is no way a feral can kill something in 4 sec stun. U don’t even need to trinket feral’s opener.
And in rbgs i’m at the bottom of dps the only thing i bring is cyclone.
Even in random bgs there are people way less geared than me doing more damage.
3 Likes
Doesn’t really mean anything. Their lists are always garbage.