Again no substances to anything you are saying other than you want an easy route to the best gear from M+ with no extra difficulty.
Just calling people toxic because they don’t agree with your PoV.
I will say it again, you can do 15’s to get gear that you need to do 20’s no problem. If you can’t do 20’s with that gear then maybe you need to start looking at your own game play rather than just start shouting “BLIZZARD BAD”.
Rubbish.
You already don’t need to raid to gear.
Except that their gear won’t be as good as it was in literally every season preceding this one.
20s in season 1 will be the same difficulty as 23s are now with the new scaling which is just Blizzard’s way of delaying progress.
and RIP alts.
Great change indeed…
You’re right, it’s not adding an overwhelming amount of difficulty, it’s just adding a new spiral to the RNG progression staircase.
They have raised the ceiling so your +15 gear will be just as good as it was before?
It just means that now you will be able to get slightly better gear if you can push your key up to a 20 instead??
I fail to see how them making the rewards better is the same as moving the 15 reward up to a 20? You do a harder key you get better loot, you do an easier lower key you get lower loot?
Gavel would have a world with you
I have 0 issue with them adding rewards to the 20 level, but they already had 15 rewards on 18 keys. Weekly vault for 15 is now reduced in item level compared to where it is sitting in SL right now.
I know it’s not going to be an issue with for me to get the gear that I want but it’s so blatantly just another timegate.
I think the worst part for me is the alts. I don’t push keys, I get to where I want then move to a new toon, and this is going to interfere with that, so naturally, I’m not a fan.
These dungeons better not suck for the first 12 months of this expansion too.
Gavel is not significant if you’re not already pushing keys…
if i read it correctly
a 20 key is giving you 405 after you finish dungeon and 421 when you open weekly vault
Last bosses in mythic raid gives you 424 and 430 ilvl ring or somethign like that
it’s not a big win in my opinion
yes i really like the progresion for a better gear cause at least now there is something to play m+ for
but if you want to push m+? you gonna raid 100% just like you did in shadowlands
nothing changed
that is always the point.
If you want to push into the highest challenge, a combination of PvE content is necessary.
No it’s not
Things are not black and white
didn’t you just said that?
It is true you need to raid to achiev highest ranks in m+
But that is the black and white orchestrated by blizzard themselves
Game shouldn’t be designed this way
Blizzard took the wheel and tell you that if you wanna be competitive player you need to find a mythic guild and schedule your time around that content so you will get gear fast so you can climb the ladder.
but what if you don’t want to do it?
There were countless threads about people telling here that they just wanna log in que for bgs or arenas but they can’t play because they are behind because blizzard put a wall between them and content.
And this is the same thing with m+ vs raiding
You are a m+ player you love it you wanna play all day you wanna push but there is a wall and it’s called raiding.
The ideal world is to separate m+ from raiding and let people compete in this mode without being req to find a world i don’t know 100 or 150 guild to collect mythic gear fast so you can start pushing high keys.
wouldn’t it be Black vs White if you never had to do any other content than your preferred one?
As it stands in DF you can play completely separate.
In DF you can get better rewards in 8/16 slots from M+ than you can get from Raiding alone.
because the Ilvl in Mythic raids is 415-424 with only 2 bosses giving 424.
vault reward from M+ is 421 and you can get them for all slots.
Why would they? WoW is harder than my actual job. If I want to “work” I’ll ask my employer for more hours.
Why would one even view a computer game as a form of work unless they are getting paid to do it?
If my son said “Da I’m working” and he was just playing WoW I’d batter the hell out of him for being such a loser. As my own father would do to me.
It’s a hobby, like fishing, DYI, gym, woodcarving…
You’re not going to the beach and wait the fish jump out of the water into your laps no? You don’t go to the gym and expect a six pack just by looking at the TV there, the wooden chair doesn’t build on its own…
The same can be applied to a game. You put your time, you build what you need with a bit of work.
Those have additional benefits beyond being fun.
Fishing you can eat the fish.
Gym you get jacked and people treat you favourably.
Woodwork you get a chair to sit on.
WoW is pretty good fun but if effort required is too high and the reward to low, I’ll expend that effort elsewhere.
For example I didn’t play S4 because I hate mega dungeons. So I decided to start learning a 3rd language.
I think , to be honest, that 20s are way too much for majority of players , but so mythic raiding . Yes 20s are now rewarding highest rewards possible for m+ , but nobody is forcing people doing 15s as their max to go out of sudden to do 20s . If someone doesnt feel like doing them they are more than fine . If someone is good with doing 15s be it , they are still same , and this doesnt change anything ( apart from the different scaling past 10) .
Only people that will feel this, are those that cannot do those keys, yet they still think they need highest reward possible for whatever reason, even if their target content doesnt require that .
This is pretty much mythic raiding inteoduction all over again, how many players cleared mythic sotfo? Even less than doing 20-25s now i would say . If raiders can live with “hard content thats out of reach for majority” then m+ can do it too .
But , i would still keep it at 18 instead of 20 at least for first season, as we all know starts are harder due to no borrowed powers etc, just look at those sets.
Wrath was fun while it lasted but now, i cant see myself going back to that . If u dont pvp , what exactly are u doing apart from one raid night per week ?
Well, if you care about gear enough to do 15’s each week then it shouldn’t be that much of a problem. If you can’t push higher then you can get better I guess. Might be biased because I quit mythic raiding but still idk, doesn’t seem too bad.
I call it bollocks. 
if you need to go to the gym to be respected you have some serious issues my man 
I’m the best indoor archer of my club, guess I can find a way to be respected by a buff guy 
What about golf then? Billiard pool? Darts?
I think I’ve done a 15 once - I mainly do 10s to 12, am not really bothered about having BiS and just do them for the fun of it, and I also don’t raid - guess I’m not normal lol